New to all this (MM Lightning), I have questions!

[neiljm]

Hi everyone, 

I have just got my first resonator, an MM Lightning, and I have a few questions since I don't have experience of other resos to compare to. It is tuned to DGDGBD. The seller is on the forum, and I really do not intend this post to imply that I think I've been sold a dodgy guitar It was 2nd hand and a good deal and it's fine if I have to tweak some things!

1. Should the tailpiece be resting on the coverplate? It is. 

2. The low and high E strings (well... D strings in this case) are resting on the inside of the headstock slots. Is this normal? If not, is there a stringing technique to avoid it? 

3. It needs a new nut as one slot is filed too low. This is something I'm happy doing on electrics and ordinary acoustics, but I have seen all the commentary about only changing strings one at a time etc so there is always pressure on the bridge. Is this because it is just extra faff if I have to take everything apart, or is it very seriously difficult stuff to rebuild? 

4. The top isn't completely flat - there's a slight bulge past the end of the fretboard dipping down to the coverplate, and also the ends of the f holes closest to the saddle are lower. Is this normal, or does it imply damage? 

5. It came with 13-56 Newtones, and I found the top too slack for a beginner slide player. I put on a set of D'Addario "Resophonic" NB strings which are 16-56. The top strings feel good, the bottom a little on the slack side but fine. However, being new to resos I did not consider that the unbalanced tension over the bridge would "tilt" it so now the action is much higher on the bass side. What should I be doing? Keep these gauges but with the saddle adjusted? Switch to 16-59s? I have seen that the Newtones are slacker at pitch, but would that exaggerate the issue? (FYI the things I have discussed above I noticed before changing the strings, so they're not just because I did it wrong!) I am sure that I will need to tweak the truss rod back a bit. 

6. I'm not that keen on the aged look tuners, does anyone know of replacements? I usually go Gotoh. 

I am sure when I get settled in I will have a blast playing it, it seems like a lovely instrument generally!

Thanks, 

Neil

[Michael Messer]

Hello Mark

I am pleased you have received your guitar from Stephen and that you are happy.

I will do my best to answer your questions...

1. Should the tailpiece be resting on the coverplate? It is. >>YES the tailpeice is supposed to rest on the coverplate.

2. The low and high E strings (well... D strings in this case) are resting on the inside of the headstock slots. Is this normal? If not, is there a stringing technique to avoid it? >>YES you can wind the strings on so the don't touch the wood. Personally I like them touching the wood, but that is a personal choice thing

3. It needs a new nut as one slot is filed too low. This is something I'm happy doing on electrics and ordinary acoustics, but I have seen all the commentary about only changing strings one at a time etc so there is always pressure on the bridge. Is this because it is just extra faff if I have to take everything apart, or is it very seriously difficult stuff to rebuild? >>Better to build up the lower slot with a mixture of superglue and ground up bone. Or replace the whole thing. It is not against the rules to remove all the strings, especially if you are doing some maintenance

4. The top isn't completely flat - there's a slight bulge past the end of the fretboard dipping down to the coverplate, and also the ends of the f holes closest to the saddle are lower. Is this normal, or does it imply damage? >>This is normal and is really nothing to even think about. Brass is a soft metal and ripples under tension. You should see some vintage brass bodied Nationals

5. It came with 13-56 Newtones, and I found the top to slack for a beginner slide player. I put on a set of D'Addario "Resophonic" NB strings which are 16-56. The top strings feel good, the bottom a little on the slack side but fine. However, being new to resos I did not consider that the unbalanced tension over the bridge would "tilt" it so now the action is much higher on the bass side. What should I be doing? Keep these gauges but with the saddle adjusted? Switch to 16-59s? I have seen that the Newtones are slacker at pitch, but would that exaggerate the issue? (FYI the things I have discussed above I noticed before changing the strings, so they're not just because I did it wrong!) I am sure that I will need to tweak the truss rod back a bit. >>>>D'Addario resophonic strings are NOT for low bass G and D tunings, they are specifically designed for high bass G tuning - GBDGBD - and in that tuning on a square neck Dobro they are perfect. They are not balanced for DGDGBD and DADF#AD. The reason this gets confusing is because Gibson won't allow D'Addario to use their "Dobro" brand name. They should be called Dobro Strings! You should fit a set of MM Newtone 15/56 as they are correctly balanced for the tunings you are using. I fit 15/56 on almost all MM Guitars and all of my own guitars.

6. I'm not that keen on the aged look tuners, does anyone know of replacements? I usually go Gotoh. >>I can't advise on that one. It is a 1930s style guitar and therefore the tuners I use are in keeping with the period and the design. I am sure Gotoh tuners will work just as well.

I am sure when I get settled in I will have a blast playing it, it seems like a lovely instrument generally! >>Just enjoy it and don't worry about the minor details that appear to be troubling you.

>>ENJOY your new guitar! ...and please don't hesitate to ask any questions you might have

Shine On
Michael

[neiljm]

Thanks Michael - the sort of quick and helpful response that seems to be normal here!

FYI I am Neil and I bought the guitar from Mike, but hopefully Mark and Stephen also had a good transaction :-)

Re: Tuners, I like the vintage style just not the "pre-aging" effect. I would rather have something that ages naturally with the guitar I suppose but that's just preference.

Re: Strings can you explain the difference? Are the D'Addarios just bigger on top? I notice on an old post that you also do a 16-59 I think.

Thanks,

Neil

[tomgiemza]

I'll just add my 2 cents about stringing. I can see some people get confused by slotted headstock, I was too, but I learnt this method: 1st and 6th string to the inside, rest of the strings to the outside.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Neil,

Oops...My apologies to you, Mike, Mark and Stephen!

Re: Tuners, I like the vintage style just not the "pre-aging" effect. I would rather have something that ages naturally with the guitar I suppose but that's just preference. >>I completely understand. Schaller 3 on a strip are really nice on resonator guitars and I think with fit straight onto your guitar - schaller.info/en/machine-heads/330/classic-hauser?c=53

Re: Strings can you explain the difference? Are the D'Addarios just bigger on top? I notice on an old post that you also do a 16-59 I think.>> D'Addario resophonic strings are gauges for GBDGBD tuning with heavy top and medium bottom. The cores on strings 6 and 5 are also thinner to compensate for the high tuning. 16/59s are great on your guitar in slack open tunings DGDGBD and DADF#AD. I used to use them on all my guitars and I still do sometimes string a guitar with 16/59 for certain things I am doing. The only way to find out is to try them - I would get a set of each 16/59 and 15/56, and see how they feel for a month or so

I hope that is helpful and I promise not to call you Mark again!

Shine On
Michael

[neiljm]

Don't worry, there was a guy in an old workplace who called me Nigel every time I saw him for years. By the time it dawned on me each time we'd moved past the small talk and I wasn't that fussed!

Frustratingly the heavy Newtones are out of stock everywhere I can see at the moment. I will have to wait - unless the John Pearse or Eagle Music ones in similar gauge are comparable?

If I'm doing a new nut and tweaking the truss rod, anything specific to these guitars that I should know? I have (on electrics) always done nuts to be the tiniest possible amount above the first fret, and necks to end up ruler straight rather than with relief.

[Michael Messer]

Okay Nigel

Go direct to Newtone Strings and call Neil Silverman. Im sure he’ll sort you out some strings

Shine On
Michael

[stevie2sticks]

Hi Neil - I’ve had a Lightning for a while, always had 15s (Monel & Phos Bronze). It’s happily kept in OpenD/G tunings and it plays awesomely.

I see Newtone Strings has 7 sets of 15s Monels & 2 sets Phos Bronze. I would suggest buying at least a set of each you will not be disappointed.

Steve
Isle of Man

P.S.1 enjoy. You got a good slide?

P.S.2 I’ve just put a set of Reso Phos Bronze 15s on my Mahogany Acoustic and really please with the result, giving Ry Cooder stuff a bit of a try out.

[neiljm]

Hi Steve,

Good to know about the acoustic. I now have three sets of 13-56 reso strings here that are unlikely to get much use otherwise!

I'm sure someone around here can use them if not.

I bought a few slides to try. The Wolfram steel sounds wonderful but feels clumsy for me. I have a "short" Starsinger which I am much more nimble with. I may look into finding a short tapered steel one.

[stevie2sticks]

Hi Neil

I was surprised at the result of reso strings on my acoustic. (I will buy more sets of reso 15s phos bronze for this).

A suggestion you could buy single strings just 16s (or 15s) for your existing sets and change the top strings.
The slide on top strings works well on 15s.

As for slides, we all collect them. I’ve got a seriously heavy bronze from DaddySlide and a German Silver plus 6 or 7 from Diamond Bottlenecks.
I’ve found Ian at Diamond Bottleneck slides very helpful with a wide product choice.

Enjoy your guitar.
Steve

[tigercubt20]

no need to remove strings to replace nuts, i slacken the strings one at a time, just enough to lift out of theyre slots, and move to the side, 3 to one side 3 to the other side. nuts should come off with the gentlest of taps. i dont use glue on a replacement nut, the string tension will prevent them from moving. and of course i change my strings one at a time, and up to pitch, play the guitar for a while, and change the next one, etc. the tedious bit is adjusting the slots to my satisfaction, that takes time and and meditation. after each small adjustment, the guitar has be played for a while. resonator guitars cant be treated like electric guitars. also hanging resonator guitars from wall brackets by the neck is just cruel, its got to stop, sign the petition today. i have a MM lightning, the thing i will change are the strings, when they are worn out, for newtone mm 15to 56 pb strings, just like the ones it came with.

[purpleorange]

I have had success with baking soda and superglue to build up nuts. Much easier that replacing a nut.

A decent set of strings and your guitar will be fine.

Most of your issues are due to lack of familiarity with this kind of instrument and over thinking.

[brucer]

Hi Neil

The MM Lightning is a great guitar, and I say this having played a lot of resonators and having owned quite a few. All guitars are different (I hope), but some have a level of consistency built into them. MM guitars have fantastic build quality, set-up, and aftersales, and really they are as good as anything else out there in the up to £4K price bracket. Not counting pre-war originals.

On the topic of strings, Newtone does provide custom gauges and does not charge extra for them so you can experiment and find what you like. My Lightning is 3mm at 12, which is a bit lower than what I am used to. So the heavier custom strings from Newtone; 16, 18, 27, 37, 47, 57 PB suit me quite well after trying 16, 18, 26, 36, 46, 56 Monals and the stock and 15 to 56 Phos Bronze

I also have a MM Fiddle edge which is 2.5mm at 12 so I am still looking at finding the right gauge (from the ranges above) and/or possibly looking to raise the action. In other words, I suppose the right string gauges depend on the particular guitar, and despite the consistency, not all MM guitars will be exactly the same.

The idea of doing one string at a time is to keep the cone in the same bedded-in position but tigercubt20's tip above, on letting them down and bending the strings out to the side or raising them away from the nut by resting them on a rolled up cloth around the first fret works well (if you have enough wound on) and it saves you from to do a full restring between fine tuning adjustments to the nut. Once you have the height right, you can always do a full restring one at a time.

String gauges make a big difference but strings are easy to change and try out and relatively cheap compared to the time a full set-up takes. So order some custom gauges and find which work for you before you tweak the set-up too much would be my view.

Bruce

[Michael Messer]

CORRECTION!!!! I have listed the wrong tuners in my post to Mark. The ones I listed are for classical guitars. My apologies!

These are the CORRECT TUNERS

schaller.info/en/machine-heads/490/grandtune-classic-hauser-without-guide-bushings?c=53



Thanks to Mike Lewis for pointing this out to me. 🙏🏻😎

Shine On
Michael

[neiljm]

Thank you all.

Those Schallers look great and will probably find their way onto my guitar!

For anyone else interested I have also found (but not yet checked the hole spacing...):

www.armstrongmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/tuning-machines-c28/economy-tuners-c231/wd-music-steel-string-tuners-3-on-a-plate-economy-p4944/s7064

www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/tuning-machines/slotted-peghead-guitar-tuning-machines/schaller-3-on-plate-guitar-machines/

www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_parts_guitar_machine_heads.htm

www.allparts.uk.com/products/gotoh-35p-450-tuners-for-slot-head-acoustic-guitars-nickel-finish