Advice on evaluating a 1930 National tricone

[gfirob]

Next week I am taking delivery of a 1930 Style 1 square necked National tricone (serial no. 2135). I wanted to ask for advice as to what to look for in terms potential problems with a tricone of this age. This is its story:

I bought it from a vintage guitar dealer who had purchased it from the original owner’s family 20 years ago. It includes a photograph of this owner and his Hawaiian band with the guitar from the 1930’s (Frank Yorgensens’s South Sea Islanders). The dealer displayed it in his shop but never played it or opened it up. He said it had no buzzes or rattles but got pretty defensive when I asked specific questions. It was sold “as-is” so there is no return, but the photographs show it to be in very good external condition with no play wear that I can see, and only a couple of dings on the top, where it looks like the player dropped a bullet nosed steel on it. Its starting price was $3600, and I bought it at $2400 after two price drops. It was listed for two months.

I own a 1932 Style O single cone National which was a total wreck and needed pretty extensive structural work done, nick planed and the fingerboard replaced, so I am aware that National’s long-term engineering was sometimes lacking. I owned an Amistar tricone for a while, but sold it because it was ultimately disappointing. The Amistar is my only direct tricone experience.

It is possible that the original owner or his family never had a reason to open it up, and if so, it has never been opened up. So when the guitar tech and I do take the cover off, it may be like opening the mummies tomb, though I hope without a curse…

So any advice about problem areas to look for in the structure or the cone/bridge assembly would be very much appreciated. Any thoughts about removing or adding gaskets, keeping or replacing what I expect to be the original cones, thoughts on the break angle or anything else would be helpful.

I'll try to add a couple of photographs from the Reverb posting.  Thanks for your help.

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[snakehips]

Hi there !

If it sounds great, leave it alone !
If you have to open it up, be very careful not to strip / chew up the slots in the coverplate screws. They might be stuck tight and trying to turn them with a slot-head screwdriver that is narrower than the slot in the screw - will press into the soft brass screws, only at each end of the screwdriver.
Find a screwdriver that fits snug into the slot.

A great screwdriver bit for coverplate screws is the special one from Stewmac that has the screwdriver blade to enclosed inside a round tube just bigger than the screw head. It greatly reduces the chance of you slipping off the screw and scratching your prized National :

www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/screwdrivers/guitar-tech-screwdriver-set-replacement-parts

[gfirob]

Very helpful, thanks, I never would have considered the fragility of the brass bolts. I have read that it is a good idea to leave them alone if they are play well, but it is hard to imagine that nothing has happened inside that guitar in 90 years. On the other hand, it doesn't show much sign of use. Could be 15 pounds of dust bunnies in it though...

[Michael Messer]

It looks beautiful. Do not open it! There is no reason to disturb and undo all those years of everything bedding in and becoming one. That is all I can offer with my 45 years experience with these guitars…,..>>do not open it!

Shine On
Michael

[gfirob]

Thanks very much, Michael, and I have read this advice a number of times. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And in tricones, there are so many multiple places that you can introduce rattles or buzzes, or miss-seat the cones or other things that will damage the sound.

But there will always be an instinct to open the mummies tomb and see if you could make it better somehow, to clear the dust bunnies, maybe find out the condition of the cones, or the gaskets, maybe inspect the structure. It is hard to walk away from that.

But your advice has the ring of good sense to it, thanks, and you have seen a lot of these in your time. I hope it just sounds great when it arrives and can be left in peace.

[marshcat]

And best not to evict the dust bunnies from their burrows. They are the repository of your guitar's mojo and history. They do no harm and do not adversely affect the sound of the instrument. I have many Nationals with a thriving population of these creatures.

[Michael Messer]

Marshcat is right, avoid the temptation to open it!

Shine On
Michael

[gfirob]

Thanks for the helpful comments. I guess the way it sounds with new strings will tell us what we need to know about the condition of the cones with out opening it up. I'll post again when it arrives.

[Michael Messer]

If you would like any advice or opinions about it, ask here before going inside.

Shine On
Michael

[gfirob]

Thanks, I will. I think it will arrive Monday.  I won't do this:

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[leeophonic]

Nice to own a squareneck they have something extra be it mojo, the extra neckspace or the fact the sound is raising direct to your face who knows. Enjoy it, not much to go wrong although like everything of a certain age a little maintenance and cleaning is expected, I can never resist opening and cleaning but I am prepared for the consequence of my actions and have good people around to consult with.

Regards

Lee

[gfirob]

So the tricone came today, even though we have had torrential rains here in Vermont and a lot of roads closed from flooding. So here is how it looked out of the box:

It was strung up and tuned to D, with very old Monel strings which were deader than Abraham Lincoln. It plays without rattles or buzzes, but it is missing for me the high ring and sustain that I expected. Hoping new strings will bring that. It is not quite as loud as my ’32 Style 0, I think.

From what I can see of the cones through the screens, they all appear intact and look pretty clean. The bridge is aluminum colored. The nut is original and the saddle looks quite old and dirty. There is polishing compound residue in seam of the cover plate and you can see, where they couldn’t polish it under the strings, how dirty it originally was. Fortunately, they didn't take the strings off to clean it.

A little hazing from sweat where the arm rests and a little hand wear on the bridge cover, where the plating is slightly worn through (and it looks silver under the plating, so I guess this guitar is German Silver). All the seams are good, a couple of small dings, no big dents, a tiny bit of pitting but mostly very shiny plating. One tuner button seems to be a little loose, turning on the shaft but the other tuners seem to be functioning well. I hate old tuners though, so I will probably replace them, if I can find appropriate tuning machines somewhere. Stewmac probably has something. The decal is in perfect shape. The case is in fairly poor condition, with a belt around the middle and a broken handle, but these old cases aren’t great in the first place and I expect to get a new one.

So that’s it. I’d appreciate any suggestions regarding the tone, which should be better to my ear, but the strings are very, very old. I don’t see any point in opening it up unless the tone does not improve with new strings. The entire bridge/cone assembly seems very solid. It's hard to see the saddle, but it looks like the string slots may be too deep. A lot of this is hard to see with out taking the cover plate off.

This is a first look and I may notice other things after I spend some time playing it. So I’d appreciate any thoughts or advice at all.

Thanks again.

[bonzo]

I reckon a change of strings will make a world of difference.
Also, and maybe you already know this, but give the guitar a while to acclimatise to its new surroundings.
Well done, looks like you've got yourself a nice guitar 🎸 👍

[snakehips]

Hi again !

Don't take ALL the strings off at once !!

Do maximum two strings off at a time - this will keep the cones & T-Bar in place
I bet it improves no end with new strings - 13-56 phosphor-bronze strings will suffice (at least for now)

[Michael Messer]

It all sounds like it is a nice one to me.

As Bonzo has said, allow it to settle into its new environment and definitely change the strings. I would change the strings one at a time and leave it in the D tuning for a day or so with the new strings. Then tune it to DGDGBD, but not to GBDGBD.

If you want to discuss the tone of the instrument you will have to post a video, because that is the nearest we can get to actually having the guitar in our hands.

Looking at your photos just now, the cones have either been cleaned or they are new-ish. Original cones rarely look as shiny as those. It is hard to tell from the photo.

Waverly tuners from Stewmac are superb.

Nice.... ENJOY!!!

Shine On
Michael