Pepsi challenge

[Pete]

From time to time I come and view messages and reviews on this web sit. I also visit other Resonator web sites regularly. The main thought seems to be that although budget single cone resonators are good for the price nothing will compare to an original National or even a modern reso-phonic National. But do you think you could tell the difference if blind folded and somebody played you a song on a few budget resonators and a few high end resonators?

[Alan]

I'd say that it has a bit more to do with how they play too.

[Pete]

I agree with you Alan, but music is all about sound therefor in my opinion sound quality has more importance than how comfortable you are playing a instrument.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Pete,

Welcome to our forum.

The answer to your question is most definitely YES. There are too many construction and materials differences to list, but I am sorry to say there is a massive difference between modern budget resophonic guitars and original Nationals and other top brands. I still think it is wonderful that the cheap ones exist and I am all for it, but if you ask about whether there's a difference, there is a massive difference.

Keep in touch
Shine On,
Michael.

[Pete]

If you are so confident Michael, why not put you money were your mouth is. Maybe you could stage this experiment next time you hold a work shop at the LRC, then you could post the results on your website. Might be quite a good day out.

[Alan]

I think you'd get more out of it if you tried them yourself - I had ago on a Fender Dobro and it sounded nothing like a Dobro (well nothing like others that I have looked at). I personally think these sort of debates don't go anywhere and there are millions of such threads on other forums. People play what they are comfortable with.

I have to admit I tried an Encore "59" Les Paul and real Gibson Les Paul from 1959 and could'nt tell the difference (Oh why the £250,000 price tag as compared to the £75 Encore!?), so I have sent an email to Gary Moore and Eric Clapton inviting them to take the 'P**si challenge' . Infact I think that Clapton should re-record the Beano album with his Encore and get a sig model. ;D

[Michael Messer]

Pete, I have been playing, researching, collecting, reviewing, discussing and listening to resophonic guitars for thirty years. I have owned dozens and played literally thousands. My closest friends are some of the greatest players and luthiers in the world. When a person spends that much time and becomes that obsessed with a subject, they do develop a very deep understanding of their subject. So I have no need to 'put my money where my mouth is'

A budget priced copy of a National Tricone is something I never thought I would see. They are so difficult to build and get right. They are incredible value for money. They look great and considering what they cost (between 300 & 500 pounds), they sound pretty good. Yes I agree, you can pick up one of these and make an authentic sound. However, most of the qualities of a National Tricone are lost because of the cheap components and lack of understanding/care by the manufacturers. None of this is a problem because they are making cheap guitars. BUT....if you want to compare a guitar mass produced in Korea for less than 50 quid a go, with a real National Tricone hand built in 1929 by some of the greatest guitar craftsmen in history, there is no comparison. A 1929 National Tricone is one of the most sofisticated and sweet sounding stringed instruments ever built.

Don't get me wrong.....the budget ones are fantastic, but don't try and compare them with instruments that cost over 3000 pounds.

Read my recent review of the Ozark guitar in last month's ACOUSTIC magazine, you may find it interesting.

I like your spirit!

Keep in touch,
Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Hi Pete
You are saying that music i all about sound
No its 100% feeling, heart and sound if you are playing
an instrument ! If your not comfortable with the instrument
its not gonna sound good either

[Pete]

Thanks Michael for your reply. It was your Ozark review that made me raise this question. You mentioned in your review that National used the cheapest materials possible during the depression, which just made me think that maybe it was more of a pretentious reason that some people chose to play Nationals. I tock a day trip to the LRC last year to play a couple of models and I chose to spend my money on the Ozark that you have reviewed, I thought that although I would dearly love to have a National I didn't think the sound of a National was £2000 better than the Ozark. I felt I got a more drastic difference in sound depending on what type of slide I use rather than the guitar I played. I also chose the Ozark because I could put a hand made cone in it for as little as £50, also I gained an extra couple of fret before the body. However the best guitar I played that day was an Axl I loved play that guitar and didn't want to put it down, but I can be pretentious and chose not to buy it because it had been painted green, silly reason but if you want a nickel polished guitar only a nickel polished guitar will do.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Pete, I think AXL do make their guitars in shiny silver. I agree with you....if it's a shiny silver one that you want.....a shiny silver one is THE only thing to leave the store with!

Which ever way we look at it, National Duolians made in the 1930s from cheap materials will always be considered some of the finest guitars ever made. These guys just knew what they were doing. That is why National & Dobro instruments from that period are so collectable. It is not just snobbery & wealth that makes people buy these old guitars, it is because the really are the dogs b*ll*X.

Shine On,
Michael.

[Deleted]

Hello Michael,

Obviously National Resophonic have done a great deal for the resurrection of the National guitar. But how do you think the modern Nationals compare to the vintage Nationals? Are they sufficiently faithful reproductions to justify the use of the National name? Or is, for example, a modern Style 1 Tricone in brass something of an imposter compared to a german silver Fine Resophonic tricone? And how do you think National are doing with the budget guitars of their day, e.g. the Duolian? Does the modern derivative Delphi capture the spirit of its inspiration?

In your opinion, should National Resophonic aim to produce faithful copies of the great models, or distil what was good into modern guitars?

I guess one of the earlier posts started me thinking about this. Gibson and Fender put a lot of effort into recreating as closely as possible their vintage classics, e.g. the Historic series Les Pauls. National Resophonic have stuck their toe in the water of a replica guitar with the Style O replicon. Do you think this will continue, do you think an artificially rusted and beaten up Duolian with a truss-rod is on the horizon?

Regards,

Richard

[Concerned guest]

Dear Pete

Firstly Ive not left my ID here I do not feel it necessary. Your comment about Michael putting his money where his mouth is is rude and arrogant. There are a number of people in this world that eat sleep and breath resonator guitars, Michael is one of them. To suggest that he or any of the other authorities on this subject could not tell the difference between the instruments you mentioned and an original National is quite simply ludicrous. May in suggest you try and improve your ears over the next 30 years and then comment ?

[Pete]

Dear Mr ?

Im sorry that my previous post has upset you. One trouble with text is the inability to put emotion in to a sentence, therefor typed words can often appear quite rude or straight to the point when the same sentence spoken may seem quite jovial. I did not mean my "put your money were your mouth is" comment to offend Michael or any one else. My purpose for this post was to highlight the good points of budget resonator guitars which is a positive movement not a negative one. I play a Ozark, not a high end guitar but I'm very very pleased with it. One song I like to play is St. james infirmary it doesn't matter what guitar I play that song on it will always bring a tear to my girlfriend eye. What ever type of music you listen to or play it just music its just for fun. You can make music with a comb and some tracing paper you can make music by banging a rhythm on a table its all good. It is daft to get emotional over a musical tool, and best to get emotional over something that matters.

[Michael Messer]

Hi everyone...Pete, concerned guest, Richard...

Firstly, I was not offended at Pete's comments and tried to give as honest an answer as I could. The reason I host this forum is to promote and get involved in discussions about Nationals, Dobros, blues records.....etc. Secondly, thanks to our concerned guest for supporting & defending me in this discussion. Thirdly.....Richard (good to hear from you!), I will reply to your post when I get the time this week to sit down and write a considered answer to your questions.

Keep in touch everyone & keep this thread going, it's just starting to get good!

Shine On,
Michael.

[rickS]

G'day all - I, too, would be very interested in a comparative new/old post from Michael on resos - maybe one way would be to take the original Nationals as the yardstick, & award points out of ten for closeness to that? (But what to compare a Resorocket with?)