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Post by robinson on Mar 7, 2023 10:24:23 GMT
Hey, my name is Robinson and this is my first post in this forum. First things first, this forum was quite helpful the last weeks, and encouraged me to buy my first resonator guitar, so thanks. Please excuse my poor english, I‘m no native speaker. So… last week I bought, what I think is, a 1977 Dobro 33H. Please correct me if I‘m wrong. It got some dings and dents, which doesn‘t bother me, but the nut is a poor replacement, the spider cone is kind of loose and the neck isn‘t straight. It still is a great guitar, and i played a lot the last days. What I am going to do is, and please stop me if I‘m making big mistakes here, I‘ll change the nut with a Graph Tech TUSQ, then I will straighten the neck. I ordered a set of John Pearse Strings 13-56 (Where can I get Newtone Strings easy in the EU?) Going to play in standard and open E. I‘m not sure what to do with the spider cone. Also not sure about the volume of the guitar, seems a little low. Thanks for feedback, Cheers
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 8, 2023 10:25:46 GMT
Hi Robinson, looks like you have correctly identified the guitar, A page from Mark Makins book or all things Dopyera Guitars need new nuts from time to time, Tusq is a good choice ( though bone is more traditional) Not sure about the cone? Does the cone move with the strings up to pitch? Is there a packer under the tail piece, reducing the brake angle? Is there a gap between the body and the heal? More photos would help From the picture it look like the spider is a little offset ( out of line) This will make the guitar play sharp on the bottom string and flat on top ( if the action is very high it may be in tune on the top and very sharp on the bottom) I am no a Dobro expert , and there are several on the forum who may have more to say Pete Welcome to the forum, there are all sorts of people here, most have an interest in resonator guitars, I’m sure you will get good advice. I am a retired guitar repairer, I have worked on a few Dobros ( very few) there are some much more experienced people on the forum. Good luck with your 33H
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Post by gordon on Mar 8, 2023 12:11:56 GMT
Hello Robinson, Welcome. Nice guitar, hope you manage to get it fixed to play just right for you. As far as setting it up goes, other people here are way more knowledgeable than me, I'm sure you'll get some good advice. If you want to get some Newtone MM strings in Europe, this company is reliable : www.cordes.fr/90-nationalLooks like they only have phosphor bronze at the moment. Gordon
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 8, 2023 13:02:02 GMT
Hello Robinson
Welcome to my forum and to our friendly community.
Nice guitar! My first resophonic guitar was a Dobro 33H like yours, but mine had a biscuit bridge type of resonator cone.
For many years people looked down on these guitars, but as time goes by they are becoming more collectable and people are appreciating what they are.
Not sure about TUSQ. While I don't eat meat, sadly I do still prefer the sound of real bone to anything else I have tried. Your neighbour's dog is a good source of such things!
Make sure it has a box wood saddle because the sound is warm and sweet. Box wood is what original Dobros were fitted with. All MM Fiddle Edge Dobros have box wood saddles.
I do not understand what you mean by "the spider cone is kind of loose" ...? Please could you explain that to me.
I would also like to see how the neck is not straight. Please could you post a photo that shows that.
The volume of that guitar with a spider cone will never be as loud as a National-style guitar with a biscuit cone. You can get 10.5 inch replacement cones for that guitar, but I think it would be a shame to destroy its originality. Very few of these were sold with spider cones, most have biscuit cones. Another thing with your guitar is that the small mandolin F holes do not push out as much sound as larger F holes, so while a biscuit cone would make it louder, it will never be as loud as a National-style guitar.
I hope that is helpful information.
(I have moved this thread because it is not really a work bench subject)
Shine On Michael
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Post by robinson on Mar 10, 2023 13:13:44 GMT
Hey, thanks for the fast response, and for this nice welcome. I do think that a bone nut will be the fitting replacement in the near future, but for this I would bring it to my luthier. The idea was to experiment with the cheap TUSQ nut to find the right action, but yeah, I‘m also kind of a traditionalist and have bone nuts on my banjo and archtop. I did install the TUSQ nut and in combination with the new strings, there was a huge increase in volume. The spider was offset as Pete mentioned. I opened it, here are some pics. I realised that the spider is attached to the cone with the screw in the center, but the cone just sits loose in the guitar. Is that how it meant to be? The cone looks kind of beat up, could this be a result of to much tension from the center screw? After some cleaning, I put everything back together, and the rattle dissapeared. Thanks for the link to the french supplier, I will check that out. I did not touch the trussrod yet, none of my tools fitted… So, I ordered a special tool for dobro trussrods from rall guitars, don‘t know if thats interesting, but i could send the link. Cheers
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Post by leeophonic on Mar 10, 2023 14:24:35 GMT
Looking at the photos the cone is damaged usually due to overtightening of the screw, best advice I can give is get a Beard cone.
Regards
Lee
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 10, 2023 15:02:10 GMT
At some point someone has probably tightened the central screw too much and distorted the cone, it looks ugly but will work ( a new one might sound a little better) . Don’t over tighten the screw. Turn it just enough to stop the central screw from rattling. Without strings the cone is ‘loose’ , is that what you meant? Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 10, 2023 15:44:53 GMT
The spider is NOT offset, it is a standard No14 Dobro-type spider. The cone is, as Lee has said, damaged beyond repair. The bridge saddle looks fine and appears to have been cut well. The cone is not supposed to be fixed into the guitar, it does just sit in the soundwell. The only thing that holds it in place is the pressure of the strings pushing downwards. This is an offset spider.... Shine On Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 10, 2023 16:33:43 GMT
Sorry, my bad use of ‘offset,’ I meant that the spider was turned off of centre. It looked angled the wrong way, so the saddle was tilted towards the bass side rather that the treble. So the spider was ‘offset’ but it is not an OffSet spider Pete
Did Dobro use up old offset spiders? On the same page ( in Mark Makins book) as the 33D is the custom 33 H 12 string, looks like the screw is offset?
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 10, 2023 17:26:12 GMT
Sorry, my bad use of ‘offset,’ I meant that the spider was turned off of centre. It looked angled the wrong way, so the saddle was tilted towards the bass side rather that the treble. So the spider was ‘offset’ but it is not an OffSet spider Pete Did Dobro use up old offset spiders? On the same page ( in Mark Makins book) as the 33D is the custom 33 H 12 string, looks like the screw is offset? Ahhh...now I understand. I also didn't read it carefully enough or I would have understood your point. OMI Dobro used 1930s mandolin dies for the F holes. 1133s and 1033s have 30s mandolin cones and coverplates, so anything is possible. However.... I don't know the source of Mark's illustration, but it looks like a standard No14 spider with the bridge saddle slightly off centre. Proper offset spiders like the one I posted are not shaped the same as the one Mark has illustrated. Shine On Michael
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Post by leeophonic on Mar 10, 2023 19:16:22 GMT
Here is my offset spider from a fiddle edge I owned a year or so ago
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 10, 2023 22:16:10 GMT
Here is my offset spider from a fiddle edge I owned a year or so ago View AttachmentLee, yours is the same as mine, so I don’t understand your point? Shine On Michael
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Post by leeophonic on Mar 11, 2023 10:44:23 GMT
Here is my offset spider from a fiddle edge I owned a year or so ago View AttachmentLee, yours is the same as mine, so I don’t understand your point? Shine On Michael Duplication of examples of what an offset spider looks like for the Dobro owner so they know what us train spotters are talking about, did not see your photo when posting mine!!! Regards Lee
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Post by robinson on Mar 13, 2023 7:37:10 GMT
Hey, so on an offset spider the saddle is off the center? Is there no reasonable way to repair my old cone? If so, what would you guys recommend? Beard? Quaterman? Replogle?
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Post by leeophonic on Mar 13, 2023 10:59:27 GMT
Repair no, it is like a politician it has lost it's integrity (structual)
I favour Beard but you decide.
Lee
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