Lowering action on MM Blues

[bluesteve9]

Hi,

I've recently become the proud owner of a MM Blues, serial number MMB 244 2ND. I want to lower the action - it is currently 6mm at the 12th fret (see pic C). I want to play a combination of slide and fretting. Pic A shows the bridge, it only has shallow notches for the strings. Pic B, for comparison, shows a Busker Delta I have (very similar guitar) which has deeper notches. Can I cut or file the notches deeper on my Blues to lower the action? Or, will the bridge pull out from the biscuit when I remove the string tension, and should I plane the bottom of the bridge down? Any informed advice welcome.

Best wishes,
Steve

Attachments:

[pete1951]

Before you touch the bridge there are some other things to check.
First ‘relief ‘ there should be a small curve in the neck, however if this curve is too great the action will be higher than it should be, this is usually cured with a truss rod adjustment.

Next is the nut too high? Is it suddenly easier to play with a capo on the first fret?

Is there any gap between the heal and body? If so then some internal propping up may be needed

If the heal is ok.....
Next how close to the body are the strings? Strings that get too close can make the guitar hard to play, you can’t ‘dig in’ to the strings. If this is the case( and if the saddle already looks on the low side, though the pictures you posted show the saddle looks ok). the neck could need resetting .

Now with those things ruled out you can look at the bridge!
Pete

[snakehips]

Hi there !

The action does look quite high, indeed.

If you are happy enough with the string spacing but just want the action lowered, then IF the saddle comes out of the slot in the biscuit, you couldsand down the underside of the saddle. Problem doing that is to get the bottom ultra flat. Do you have the right tools for that ?
There is this thing : (a relatively cheap version of an expensive item you can get from Stewmac in the USA :

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133889410901?hash=item1f2c6e4755:g:5eIAAOSwdW9hUt~n&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAABIFTSVtq2tE%2F0zDDrCd6NxwDCIf6fFqkfyjCevAF%2F7QqTKDPrfvMtdMdR4AROc6GcFhdmS8Phjmcgoau5CMsyUBKK4QhvMolCEnE%2BJteoyU5h4NxIb2sAArbnEZo%2BiVaiOMv5NIWuY4bjGJGSEj5vNpAmqosck7T9JKFMxQPbz5IVzxoX0OBDbcJdohnctJKovYe1%2Btx6D0ZhMaEeX0Kab3A5ZiXzP5r2m9%2FyqyeZDSWG%2Bf8MArHuy%2F5uiV5KIZLZ83mS8jtLbEAFpXXIyeuwWw%2FaX5n%2Bp044gZAqmUjuQXUgdapjf5vLljwhmb%2FwFSolmt1gjR3ObPp3hdoyVJwq%2FZkdBrkkxMVaPnsnk%2F23yF0vzoKGvkFiyeRmpgpK2iTYkg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMxIfwrsBh


You could take a large file and sand down the top of the saddle until it's a bit higher than you wanted, then cut new slots.
Tip - draw a pencil line down the side of the saddle at each string slot, to show where each slot should be once you sand away the original slots.
Do all your work with the coverplate off BUT be super careful not to damage the cone.

Ideally, you should have nut slot files that closely match the string gauges you use.
This item gives you the files and a holder for using the file (worthwhile if you were going to start doing set-ups on yours and others guitars).

A "string slot rule" is an indespensible item to get the spacing between the string slots perfect.
If you space each slot the same distance apart, you end up with less space between the wound strings - and it looks & feels weird - the bass tsrings look too close together. The string slot rule spaces the strings much better - and I always use mine :

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324573257476?hash=item4b9212df04:g:xgMAAOSwPzdg6A40&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoL02TcUlZxeM0vGtc0M%2BZTb1%2BVCz32D8LEB1zt9pZKgRGxQeVaBwxy3qUI5mQbSUrgZDgLKxS2qJ7%2BEaKnAIvA91DXgQkx5e89RYQo8Mk0TArIs2SHl5vGePfvH8IH8GdKDn%2FppDUgarq%2BZHIaLxwjo6sWeY1q%2FDhnWMSxEPSAzP2%2FLQF84tyCdjnncnw6CFzPbxAeQwomcUDkBlW53EgCE%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6bu4a_AYQ

Then you need the nut files themselves - a decent quality set will cost you circa £100 or more.
You could get a cheap set like these ones - BUT I've never tried them and they might be awful !
(NB. The smallest size is 0.016 gauge - which is too big for the 1st string, in my view UNLESS you use 16-56 reso type strings) :

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125511210790?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D244769%26meid%3D6002bfe57f9d449abd2be92fcef9f414%26pid%3D101195%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D295094652975%26itm%3D125511210790%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAMLv11WebTrimmedV3MskuWithRevOptLambda85WithVMEV1%26brand%3DUnbranded&_trksid=p2047675.c101195.m1851&amdata=cksum%3A1255112107906002bfe57f9d449abd2be92fcef9f414%7Cenc%3AAQAHAAABENTH6Bgc4Y2Qk2Of%252FyQgZb%252FtzJdMp3WIMbtpIBxeKhbRcv5n5y3lVhHaxVCrVBHT17ijIaWJLA7oEXnbyRUkYXUbxvXm9wVxi%252FXS21V%252FuaeNShqy1e7YzNJijMd4sK7DFFyJtzSkHGBR%252FbnJ%252FDI6HWVeS5%252BDhCTQYaabGD28DMPZorfVnIjUz4SezBvJt%252BquMAdICgMQ8aLPSmhA6hdYWHTs0MalhqN8GlrYUQGVmcWmuQobT%252F0fz5FzfeUM20BowZYu8AHmNxymqbVgSJNZ00KdR9FPFilWDfMAL3ShU1fVxLDdsKyO0OCukEN418zROlZPI71s%252FXtrhlSuhdrmUVCzZ9RPHErFk%252FSdl%252Fd5Medr%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047675

If you hadn't planned to spend THAT much, AND you only need to alter one guitar, then you'd be best taking the guitar to an experienced luthier to do the work for you.

[tigercubt20]

6 mm, thats a lot, my mm blues measures 3.5mm at the 12 fret 6 string. the correct way to measure, is from the top of the fret, to the bottom of the string.i would check everything that could affect this. its possible the action has been raised for playing lap style, but that would be obvious, as for neck relief, i consider it useless, its for low action, light gauge strings.

[Michael Messer]

Hi BlueSteve9

Welcome to our forum.

We spoke about this guitar recently. I looked up the number and I think I said was from 2010. I explained that it was sold as a B-stock, or 2nd instrument from the time when I was not involved with the sale of the guitars. I designed them and put my name to them and supported the brand, but that was where it stopped. In early 2014 I took over the whole thing and since then every guitar, apart from the ones sold through 12th Fret in Canada, has come through mine and my luthier, Dave King's hands.

From looking at the photos this guitar does not have quite enough neck angle to get the correct setup, and I suspect this was the reason it was marked as a B-stock instrument and sold for a price that took that into consideration. This was early days and there were quite a few B-stock/2nd guitars. I assume the original owner used it as a lap style guitar and I can also see that someone has lowered the strings by cutting the slots in the saddle a little deeper (BTW, it is not the original bridge saddle). This job has not been done well and affects the tone and volume in a negative way. While there is a bit of leeway with the break angle from tailpiece to bridge saddle, it is only a little because while you don't need much, you do need a slight angle to put downward pressure on the cone. So you can come down a little, but only a mm or so. I would certainly look at the neck relief and maybe try tightening the truss rod (clockwise) to see if it helps. Do this a half turn at a time and do not de-tune the strings. It might be very stiff after so many years of never being turned, so tread carefully. Perhaps you could show us a side shot of the neck with a straight edge along the frets, a steel ruler would do, so then we can see the relief or lack of it. Failing all that, you only have one option and that is to get the neck reset at the correct angle. This must only be done by one of two or three people in the UK and while it will not be a cheap job, it will completely solve the problem permanently. My advice would be to get this done and not to spend too much time on the other ways of fixing it.

I hope I have been helpful and I am sorry that you may have to do this work on the guitar, but I do believe it will be worth it.

If I can help in any way by supplying you new components, such as a cone, biscuit and bridge saddle, tuners, screws...etc, I am happy to send them to you at no cost, apart from the packing and postage.

My word is not the last one, or the gospel, but I do know these guitars.

Shine On
Michael





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[bluesteve9]

Michael,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query. I bought the guitar approx 2 weeks ago, and joined the forum,  so I wasn't aware of the history which you've filled me in on, but anyway, moving forward is the important bit. I attach a few photo's of the neck and one showing the break angle at the bridge, I would be very grateful, if you have any further insights from these, to give me your thoughts. 

Subject to any further comments you may have, I'm minded to try adjusting the truss rod to see if that solves this issue. If it doesn't, I will approach an appropriate luthier to get the neck re-set professionally. I will be playing this guitar for years, I don't mind spending money to get it to it's full potential. So:
1. Any further comments would be appreciated.
2. Could you please give me contacts or point me in the right direction to the specialist luthiers. I live in Mid Devon.

Thanks for your generous offer of supplying guitar parts free of charge with me paying postage, I'll see how I go.

Thanks again for your valuable input on this, and I look forward to hearing from you in due course,

Regards, Steve Colderick

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[zero]

You need to set that ruler right the the tops of the frets. Even from this view it looks like you need to tighten that truss rod quit a bit. But first show it on top of the frets so we can get a better look at how big the gap is around the 6th fret. You want the ruler to go from the 1st fret to the 12th fret. The gap in the center of that space is what we need to see.

[bluesteve9]

Thankyou Mr. zero for your input, now you've explained that it makes perfect sense (I'm still learning). I attach 3 pics, comments welcome. 

Attachments:

[Michael Messer]

Zero is correct about the ruler, but it has not changed my opinion of what has to be done to get this guitar into good working order.

It needs a neck reset and setup by a really good resonator luthier.

Shine On
Michael

[bluesteve9]

Michael,
Thanks for your comment. I've come to the conclusion that if I try to adjust the truss rod I would have to move it so much to get the 12th fret gap down strings would be buzzing on the frets near the headstock, so will seek a professional neck re-set. Do you have a list of recommended resonator luthiers or could you recommend someone?

Thank for your input (and Zero's)

Best wishes,
Steve

[Michael Messer]

Feb 1, 2023 14:08:00 GMT bluesteve9 said:

Michael,
Thanks for your comment. I've come to the conclusion that if I try to adjust the truss rod I would have to move it so much to get the 12th fret gap down strings would be buzzing on the frets near the headstock, so will seek a professional neck re-set. Do you have a list of recommended resonator luthiers or could you recommend someone?

Thank for your input (and Zero's)

Best wishes,
Steve

Steve, I sent you a private message yesterday about getting your guitar properly fixed. Check your forum inbox.

Shine On
Michael