Tricone repair

[tomgiemza]

Last summer I bought a brass tricone made by spanish luthier Lleonart. Honest handmade instrument, obviously this luthier is not specialized in resonators, it has a few flaws, but all in all it was good purchase.
But yesterday I damaged it  I feel stupid about it, luckily only the cones are crashed. I want to repair it quickly and I could use some advice.

Cones
National cones are expensive (€165), but I can spare money if National cones are really worth it. I read on this forum that Continentals are not bad. Where I can find them? Any other alternatives?

T-Bar Bridge
Bridge is not damaged, but I believe it's not very good. I read Mr. Messer advice to remove the paint. But what bothers me in the first place, this bridge is made from two parts rather poorly joined together (picture). I guess it may "suck" some sustain and volume. I liked it's tone, but I was a little disappointed about the volume and sustain.

Saddle
Right now it's got an ebony saddle I cut by myself (original, also ebony, was too low for my liking). Which material do you like the most and why? Ebony? Maple? Something else?

Set-up
I know set-up is always important and I have a broad idea how to do it, but any hints, tricks and advice would be nice.

I played it more often than any other guitar and like it better than single cone. So please help... poor poor pitiful me  

[Michael Messer]

Jan 20, 2023 14:32:15 GMT tomgiemza said:

Last summer I bought a brass tricone made by spanish luthier Lleonart. Honest handmade instrument, obviously this luthier is not specialized in resonators, it has a few flaws, but all in all it was good purchase.
But yesterday I damaged it  I feel stupid about it, luckily only the cones are crashed. I want to repair it quickly and I could use some advice.

Cones
National cones are expensive (€165), but I can spare money if National cones are really worth it. I read on this forum that Continentals are not bad. Where I can find them? Any other alternatives?

T-Bar Bridge
Bridge is not damaged, but I believe it's not very good. I read Mr. Messer advice to remove the paint. But what bothers me in the first place, this bridge is made from two parts rather poorly joined together (picture). I guess it may "suck" some sustain and volume. I liked it's tone, but I was a little disappointed about the volume and sustain.

Saddle
Right now it's got an ebony saddle I cut by myself (original, also ebony, was too low for my liking). Which material do you like the most and why? Ebony? Maple? Something else?

Set-up
I know set-up is always important and I have a broad idea how to do it, but any hints, tricks and advice would be nice.

I played it more often than any other guitar and like it better than single cone. So please help... poor poor pitiful me  


View AttachmentView Attachment

Wow! ....there are a lot of questions and the instrument itself, although honestly built by a good person, has many things that will always hinder its tone.

Get some Continental cones, they will be fine. Maybe Thomann....?
Get a proper T bridge made of aluminium. Others on here will help about where to get one.
Use maple or box wood for a saddle, never use ebony on resonator guitars because it sounds too bright and brittle. The woods I have mentioned are warm sounding.
Setup - hopefully some others on here will help with that problem. If it was easy there would be many more resonator luthiers around.

The guitar has been designed very strangely because the cones are positioned wrong, so it will never sound as it should.

The neck is, if I am not mistaken, a Shanghai-built resonator neck. The body is a sort of copy of various cutaway Tricones.

I wish you a successful project in getting it repaired and sounding good, but you are in for a difficult job.

Maybe some forum members will offer their advice.

Shine On
Michael

[tomgiemza]

Jan 20, 2023 16:36:15 GMT Michael Messer said:

The guitar has been designed very strangely because the cones are positioned wrong, so it will never sound as it should. It looks to me as if the maker has tried to copy very early National mandolin and ukulele bodies, which were not successful and did not sound right.

The cones are positioned normally, maybe it's the angle of the photo.
Bridge has correct measurements (luckily). The neck is made by the luthier, not from Shanghai. I played republic, the neck profile is different and headstock is completely different. I don't know which wood it's made of, but it has ebony fingerboard.

Jędrzej Kubiak already helped me a lot, unfortunately he won't take it due to lack of time, but he'll be helping me.

[tomgiemza]

By the way, I found an interesting comparison of different cones: people.duke.edu/~crumley/cones/cone%20test.mp3
But I think he should have played them instead of tapped them.

[Michael Messer]

I did not explain myself clearly and I was deceived by the photo. The cones are positioned under the body which is not a good way to do things. This was something done in early National mandolins and ukuleles and it was not successful. We know of a few guitars like this, such as the first Triolian Tricone and the reproduction ones that Mike Lewis and Gottfried Gfrerer made, also I believe the Tricones made by Mule have this construction. There was a reason why National made triangular soundwells and coverplates.

Just to clarify something you have said - not all Shanghai-built necks are from the same manufacturer as Republic. However, most of the manufacturers do use the same or similar components, so the profile and the headstock being different, is not enough to go on.

If Jęd is helping you, it will be done well as he knows what he is doing.

I wish you success in getting it repaired and sounding good.

Shine On
Michael

[leeophonic]

similar to my old Dobro tricone although the metal/Brass well should be more resonant than the plywood in mine.

[Michael Messer]

....Oh yes and those have the same design too! I repaired/setup one of those once at a festival for a guy that brought it along to show me.

It is not true that brass sound wells have a better tone than wood. Some of the best sounding Tricones ever built were the early ones with laminate plywood soundwells. They have everything - amazing tone, volume, sustain, clarity and extra warmth that is rarely in metal ones. I have played a few of those early wood soundwell Tricones and many years ago recorded with a beautiful 1927 square neck style 2.

I have two wood bodied "Fine Resophonic" Tricones built by Mike Lewis, a square neck and a round neck. Both have laminate wood soundwells and are amazing instruments.

There is a lot more to wood soundwells than you are giving them credit for.



Shine On
Michael

[tomgiemza]

I always thought that any plywood guitar would sound terrible. And then I heard, for instance Gottfried David Gfrerer. Every guitar resonator/acoustic/electric it's more than sum of its parts. You can find a great guitar build from junk and poor guitar from the best components. Well, also the big difference is who's playing it
When I bought this guitar I thought it was a mistake, but after a few days I was in love with it. Many things in it seems "not right" but it worked. Of course, I'm happy to hear Michael's suggestions and I hope that after the repair it will sound even better.

Yesterday was the first time I damaged any instrument. Generally, I don't damage things often Lesson learnt and I will try to make in an opportunity to learn more about resonators and improve this tricone. And I will never again put any guitar above a floor level

[leeophonic]

I am aware of the early wood well tricones being excellent, unfortunately the 90's Dobro tricone were a mistake and the original metal well had a plywood overshelf to raise the pan as it had been engineered wrong, this lost valuable contact and allowed tone and volume to escape, a little more R&D and the Dobro had potential but they sold them all prematurely as cash was more important than reputation at that time.

At the time I owned this one I had four tricones and the bottom of the heap was the Dobro so I sold it on and am reduced to a lonely one now, but kept the 36 2-35 National which is another model outside of the norm.

Regards

Lee