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Post by Mike lewis on Mar 20, 2022 16:08:00 GMT
Thanks Mike, that's great - I'll measure this tomorrow and report back. Appreciate your help! Slightly (!) worried about the idea of moving the cones - do you mean in the way Michael described above, or some other way? Don't worry , The safest way to do it once you have measured the scale length and its ok +/_ but it need a little pushing and pulling Is to do the set up without the cover plate on . So take the cover plate off and tune the guitar , check with your tuner to see if its flat or sharp and then move it backward or forward with the T bridge until it has good intonation on the first and the 4th string . Resonator guitar never have perfect intonation but near enough .. Once thats done you can put the cover plate back on . Some times I put a spot of glue on two of the cones to stop them moving while I take the stings off and put the cover plat back on . If you take your time you won't have any problems . Just a thought Its most probably better for you to do this with just the two E strings tuned to pitch , not so much tension on the cones to move them . |
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Post by kayboston on Mar 20, 2022 19:38:28 GMT
Thank you Michael - it's ridiculous the amount of expertise on this forum - I've just checked out some of Mike' work on the internet - WOW! blueshome1 - other than the weight (which I'll remember to check next time!) and this intonation issue, I really like the guitar - I'm not experienced with resonators in general so can't compare it to anything else (and it's hard to find them in NZ it seems anyway). If I can avoid sending it back, I will... but the thought did cross my mind. Appreciate the comment. |
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Post by kayboston on Mar 20, 2022 19:42:53 GMT
Thanks Mike, that's great - I'll measure this tomorrow and report back. Appreciate your help! Slightly (!) worried about the idea of moving the cones - do you mean in the way Michael described above, or some other way? Don't worry , The safest way to do it once you have measured the scale length and its ok +/_ but it need a little pushing and pulling Is to do the set up without the cover plate on . So take the cover plate off and tune the guitar , check with your tuner to see if its flat or sharp and then move it backward or forward with the T bridge until it has good intonation on the first and the 4th string . Resonator guitar never have perfect intonation but near enough .. Once thats done you can put the cover plate back on . Some times I put a spot of glue on two of the cones to stop them moving while I take the stings off and put the cover plat back on . If you take your time you won't have any problems . Just a thought Its most probably better for you to do this with just the two E strings tuned to pitch , not so much tension on the cones to move them . Thank you so much Mike - OK, I think I can do this... I'll get onto it later this afternoon and let you know how I get on. Super appreciative of your help and expertise here! Thank you. |
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Post by kayboston on Mar 21, 2022 0:53:32 GMT
Check the scale length to see if you have any compensation or if its too short .. Measure from the nut to the 12th fret and double it ,thats the scale length .Then measure from the nut to the front of the saddle in the T bridge to see if it's the same .It should be a couple of mm longer thats the compensation When tuned ,If the strings are flat at the 12th fret the cones need moving forward and if its sharp they need moving backwards . Your strings are very low for a resonator guitar so thats not the problem the 16 /59 strings that Michael suggested should help too as you are tuning your guitar down .to C A quick update on this... "Measure from the nut to the 12th fret and double it ,that's the scale length." My measurement: 316.5mm x 2 = 633mm"Then measure from the nut to the front of the saddle in the T bridge to see if it's the same." My measurement: 638mmSeems like quite a difference, or maybe that's OK? The first snag I've come across trying to do the adjustment is that I'll need to wait to get a new set of strings (they're on their way) to take the cover plate off. But looking into the guitar, it seems there are small pins in between the cones (not sure what they're made of), which will look like they will stop the cones moving? (Not sure if they're visible in the attached pics). With the strings slackened, and without yet taking the cover plate off, there's just no movement on the bridge using the pencil trick Michael mentioned. Thanks again, for all the help!    |
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 21, 2022 7:46:49 GMT
Black painted T bridge? There is a thread about that too.
Pete
Looks like those pins have removed any ‘wriggle’ room from the system!
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Post by kayboston on Mar 21, 2022 9:02:57 GMT
Thanks Pete - yes, I read here about the black paint :-(
It's not looking too promising on the wriggle room front either...
Frustrating!
Cheers
Dylan
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 21, 2022 10:08:40 GMT
I have only had a few Tricones apart ( none of them Nationals) but usually they had a triangle with curved side in the centre. This is pressed into the steel of the well (on wooden wells a wooden triangle is glued in, or the cones have a routered 6” ‘hole’ cut into it. Looks like Mule has not bothered to get the well pressed so has put pins in . The pressing also will make the well stiffer, which is probably a good thing ?( Hopefully Mike LewIs will clarify, he has done loads of work on loads of ‘proper’ Tricones
Pete
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Post by Mike lewis on Mar 21, 2022 12:47:11 GMT
Hi Kayboston , thats why I said to do it without the cover plate on . The pins are meant to stop the cones moving around and to give the correct scale length with compensation . The ones I have seen are not absolutely accurate . 5mm is perhaps a little too much and your guitar strung to pitch could be be Flat . You can Take the pins out if you need too and add a spot of glue to stop the cones moving around without the strings on . The pencil way of doing it works very well on single cones & spider bridge guitars .,Tricones are a little different as you can pull the T out of the top of the cones which will eventually squesh the top of them .! Wait till you have the heavier srings that are better for your C tuning then set it up without the cover plate on .Good luck
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 21, 2022 17:55:10 GMT
If the pins are wood they could easily be chopped down, don’t leave anything sticking up above the well as the cone may rock on it. Hopefully this may give you the movement you need and maintain the original makers idea .  |
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Post by kayboston on Mar 21, 2022 20:02:20 GMT
Hi Kayboston , thats why I said to do it without the cover plate on . The pins are meant to stop the cones moving around and to give the correct scale length with compensation . The ones I have seen are not absolutely accurate . 5mm is perhaps a little too much and your guitar strung to pitch could be be Flat . You can Take the pins out if you need too and add a spot of glue to stop the cones moving around without the strings on . The pencil way of doing it works very well on single cones & spider bridge guitars .,Tricones are a little different as you can pull the T out of the top of the cones which will eventually squesh the top of them .! Wait till you have the heavier srings that are better for your C tuning then set it up without the cover plate on .Good luck Thank you again Mike, for your patience with this/me! That makes sense - I'll wait till I get those strings. A couple of other (stupid) questions if you had time? 1. What type of glue would I use, and where exactly to place it (under cone, or a blob next to it?) 2. I'm assuming I'm going to have to take the strings off twice (once to get the cover plate off, once to get it back on)? Slight problem is that this guitar has a different tailpiece/mechanism for securing the ball ends of the strings. They don't just slot in the top like on a National, but go through individual holes in a metal plate under the end of the tailpiece (I can attach a better photo when I'm back home, but photo below shows at least that it's not like a National. My question is, if that's the right way to do it then I'll need to sacrifice the strings I use to set the intonation, unless there's another way? I wouldn't care normally, but I've only ordered one set of the MM Newtones in the heavy gauge at this stage (I got a medium gauge too). Many thanks again, Dylan  |
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Post by kayboston on Mar 21, 2022 20:04:16 GMT
If the pins are wood they could easily be chopped down, don’t leave anything sticking up above the well as the cone may rock on it. Hopefully this may give you the movement you need and maintain the original makers idea . Thank you Pete, that's a great idea - I'll see if that's do-able once new strings have arrived and I can get the coverplate off. Appreciate your help and comments on this! Cheers, Dylan |
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 21, 2022 22:49:14 GMT
Don’t throw your strings away. Slacken them, then and remove the tailpiece. ( a capo will help to stop strings getting tangled) . You can remove the handrest on your cover plate, so there should be no problems removing the cover plate , the tailpiece (and then the strings) can then be replaced and adjustment made .
Pete
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Post by kayboston on Mar 22, 2022 0:13:22 GMT
Don’t throw your strings away. Slacken them, then and remove the tailpiece. ( a capo will help to stop strings getting tangled) . You can remove the handrest on your cover plate, so there should be no problems removing the cover plate , the tailpiece (and then the strings) can then be replaced and adjustment made . Pete Thank you Pete - I did wonder that, but when I unscrewed the tailpiece it wouldn't come off :-( It seems to have some foam underneath it, presumably to stop rattling, and I wonder if it's stuck to that somehow. I didn't want to start using a ton of force to get it off. Pics below show the plate the strings go through and the tailpiece (not sure you can see the black foam under it). Thanks, Dylan   |
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 22, 2022 7:24:30 GMT
You mention foam under the tailpiece, could Mule have used some thick double sided tape? This might be used to position parts before the screw was put in as well as to stop rattling. Does the tailpiece move VERY slightly with the screw removed or is it rock solid?
Pete
Mule should be talking to you about this stuff
There are several respected players who use Mule guitars, I have never had one in my hands but sounds like their customer service is not up to scratch . Things like this give a company a bad name I am very surprised they have not been more helpful.
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Post by bonzo on Mar 22, 2022 9:05:48 GMT
Hi Kayboston, sorry to hear of all your problems.
Am I right in thinking this is a new guitar? If so it should have been set up to your specifications and checked before delivery.
If it were mine and new I think I would be returning it! You bought something to enjoy not to be hassled by.
It's the sort of thing you might expect with a 'fixer upper' not a premium item.
If on the other hand you got it used, then who knows whats been done to it.
Hope I haven't sounded to negative but you really shouldn't be having these problems, good luck with your efforts, you obviously realise you're getting advice from the most knowledgeable people around. Maybe it's time to cut your losses if possible.
All these comments are my personal opinion of course and I have no axe to grind.
(Really no pun intended).
Best wishes to you all, John
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