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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 14, 2021 12:25:04 GMT
I actual roll the slide (rather than use the end of the slide) across the underside of the biscuit, working my way around the biscuit, pressing the piezo into the tight-fit slot. My Highlander-replacement piezo pickup is sounding fairly good, so far. A bit lower output, and a more treble than the Highlander, although not horrible piezo quack. Recorded some videos badly, comparing different Nationals - they are not good enough to present, I don’t think. Need time to do a better demo/comparison. Just sitting here awondering if your pickup is called a Lowlander. I'll get my coat.,..
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 14, 2021 15:02:01 GMT
I actual roll the slide (rather than use the end of the slide) across the underside of the biscuit, working my way around the biscuit, pressing the piezo into the tight-fit slot. My Highlander-replacement piezo pickup is sounding fairly good, so far. A bit lower output, and a more treble than the Highlander, although not horrible piezo quack. Recorded some videos badly, comparing different Nationals - they are not good enough to present, I don’t think. Need time to do a better demo/comparison. Just sitting here awondering if your pickup is called a Lowlander. I'll get my coat.,.. PD, actually "Highlander" is kind of right for Richard. The reason they called the company Highlander was because of their Scottish heritage. Shine On Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 14, 2021 18:49:37 GMT
...hence my comment knowing where SH is based. 😀
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 14, 2021 20:23:54 GMT
...hence my comment knowing where SH is based. 😀 ....of course. I missed that one! Shine On Michael
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Post by snakehips on Nov 14, 2021 21:32:36 GMT
Hi again !
I’m born & bred in Edinburgh. Spent 8yrs as a student in Dundee. Spent a week in the Highlands every October, during the school half term, as a kid - and love it there. Living technically just outside Edinburgh’s city limits these days, in East Lothian.
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 14, 2021 23:39:43 GMT
Hi again ! I’m born & bred in Edinburgh. Spent 8yrs as a student in Dundee. Spent a week in the Highlands every October, during the school half term, as a kid - and love it there. Living technically just outside Edinburgh’s city limits these days, in East Lothian. There you go - a Lowlander.
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 22, 2021 20:47:49 GMT
After a fail due ( hopefully) to a cheap piezo, I remembered I had this (Dobro?) pickup I got with a load of stuff from Busker . As it’s in 2 parts I will fit it slightly differently to the standard Highlander ( see diagram) . I think that as this is most likely a spider bridge under-saddle pickup , the preamp should, therefore , be voiced for good cone tone. Time will tell Pete
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Post by snakehips on Nov 22, 2021 23:27:54 GMT
Hi again !
I’ve recently had discussions with a guy at Headway. They are actually marketing a coaxial bendy piezo pickup for fitting into in a slot in a biscuit - and this version they call their National Steel model.
I have pointed out to them that to really stand a chance in selling lots of them, they need to : 1. Include a quality maple biscuit, with the routed-out pickup slot, and make sure the slot is sized perfectly for their pickup. Instead, they don’t plan on including a biscuit and told me they expect a buyer to get a luthier to make a biscuit, with a slot cut out, as “a luthier should know what they are doing”. Well, I’d not be letting the average luthier tinker around on my vintage National with vintage cone, trying to make a biscuit AND trying to get the pickup/slot combination to sound good, when they might not even be sure what they are aiming for ! There are only a few luthiers in the UK that might know what is required BUT do they want to spend hours experimenting with a new pickup system ? 2. State the diameter of the pickup (I’ve asked multiple times & they haven’t yet given me that crucial dimension) 3. Consider their 9V battery powered internal preamp to not be designed to be inside the guitar - as changing batteries insidenis not a great idea. They did tell me they could set up on demand an external battery supply, or even have the pickup powered direcyly into the guitar with Phantom power 4. Lastly, some soundbites/videos would help sales too !!!
At a very similar price to the Fishman Nashville Biscuit Resonator pickup, they need to understand what practical needs a single-cone National guitar & their owner needs to have. Sounds like that already have a pickup and thought they can market it for resonator guitars too, but haven’t bothered to think it fully through.
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Post by snakehips on Nov 23, 2021 8:37:28 GMT
Hi again !
I just remembered, Headway's "National Steel" pickup system - the preamp is the combined form of preamp, strap button & jack socket. I pointed out to them that most Nationals will have a neck stick - and that this would get in the way of fitting their combi preamp. (Certainly not ideal to be drilling a big hole into the end-block/neck stick, possibly weaking the neck-stick).
They did say they can do a seperate preamp and jack socket - but again, I think they were hinting this would be a custom order (and likely even more expensive).
Keen to find out, Pete, what you think of the Headway pickup - although the configuration you have, I'm not sure it will work so well, OR maybe it will ?? !!! What is the diameter of your Headway pickup element ? No guarantee the "National Steel" pickup will be the same pickup in a longer, single piezo cable format though.
When I asked Headway for the active pickup length and diameter of the pickup, they told me it was 11-12cm long ! A Highlander pickup (the active part that runs around just a bit more than a semi-circle around the biscuit, is around 8.5cm long !! Annoying when you ask for two pieces of information - and they only give one !!
Heck, here is the answer they gave to all my questions (not answering all of them). Reading between the lines, I don't think they have any idea what a National guitar needs for a great sounding pickup system :
"Hi Richard,
We should be able to help you. We do offer customised versions if you should need them, with a roughly 2 week turnaround. You were right as below. We Offer the high end HE5 range with an extended jack cover or the Snake3 with smaller pre-amp on end of pickup. We can alter the form of either. I am not clear what you mean about the jack, but we can use a different jack if you supply them or identify them. I know what you mean about the Fshmn sound. I don’t think Headway would be like that. We offer clarity, warmth and pre-EQ. Headway pickups are supported by a clear outer shrink over the metal braid that makes them a lot less squishy and relatively tough. Once string balances are achieved, you normally keep that forever, unlike with squishy pickups that move.
What EQ do you apply. Is it flat response or a bit of low end cut? Do you apply a mid range cut? Dobros can have u/ saddle pickups fitted by routing out the aluminium. An alternative to active on board would be a Passive piezo cable pickup, a short high quality Sommer Cable jack lead and an EDB-2 H.E or EDM-1 H.E..
Another solution is Phantom power. Our EDB/EDM offer 11v or 9v phantom to Jack. You need a stereo lead and we supply a battery clip that shorts the clip with pickup and allows phantom t power your active on board. No battery is needed inside guitar. Another solution would be pull drawer battery holder in side, but you won’t like that.
Standard pickup is between 11cm-12cm. Not a critical length as surplus hangs down.
We do not supply the biscuit. We have allowed luthiers to do the routing as they would the bridge of a regular acoustic, so it should not be difficult to get that work done by any experienced luthier. "
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 23, 2021 11:50:19 GMT
Not very helpful. They need to talk to someone who has fitted Highlander pickups to vintage instruments , very few luthiers have done this . I worked for several shops in a fairly large town for 40 years and never fitted one. I also didn’t have a jig or way of routing the slot.( so that an hour or so on the job) They seem to think that a circular slot is as easy to do as a straight on an acoustic bridge .
Pete
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Post by snakehips on Nov 23, 2021 12:27:04 GMT
Hi again !
They did at least respond to my intitial enquiry - and give a decent length of info.
Just not sure they "get it" !!
I think it would be best to use NRP biscuits.
I know a good local luthier who MIGHT be able to rout out the slot - I'm guessing at this stage, until I actually ask him.
Still need to know the diameter of the Headway pickup to know what width (and depth ?) the slot needs to be. I'd image the depth of the slot is not too critical as I think WE have already established that the Highlander pickup does not actually touch the cone. So any pickup we might try does not need to sit proud of the underside of the biscuit necessarily.
I think Highlander pickups did all the "donkey-work" to establish the best way to amplify a National biscuit-cone guitar - so we'd likely be best going with that design, to start with at least.
Perhaps I can get my luthier friend to do a couple of routed out biscuits (I have some spare) - all with slightly different locations for the pickup - and see which one might sound the best, and have the strongest singal level.
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Post by snakehips on Nov 23, 2021 12:56:14 GMT
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 23, 2021 13:26:14 GMT
HOW MUCH!!!! .....I'm in the wrong business! Shine On Michael
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Post by snakehips on Nov 23, 2021 13:42:05 GMT
Hi Michael !
Well, Highlander pickup systems were in the same price range - so if the pickup is amazing, then it would be worth it.
I've sent Headway another email - and intend to buy a pickup from them & try it out. Hoping just to get the pickup itself first - and see how that sounds with my Orchid Electronics Acoustic Preamp (as it sounds great with Highlander pickups).
Their website states that the preamp that comes with their "National Steel" pickup, has a fixed EQ, tailored basically to give a great sound. What it doesn't make clear though is if the National Steel's pickup preamp is specifically tailored for this intended guitar type, or was this preamp with fixed EQ actually designed for "standard" wooden, non-reso acoustics - and they think the set EQ would simply apply just as well to resonator guitars ?? !!!
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Post by snakehips on Nov 26, 2021 11:26:51 GMT
Update.
Headway's piezo pickup is a braided-copper, flexible coaxial pickup, a bit like Highlanders, except then it is sheathed in a plastic layer, making it about 2.2mm to 2.4mm think, compared to Highlander's 1.6mm thick piezo. Surely the plastic sheath would dampen vibrations reaching the pickup ??
NB. Getting any answers out of them is like pulling teeth ! (And I should know !!!)
Headway are making me a pickup without the plastic sheath - and I'm hoping it will fit into my spare Highlander biscuit so I can try it out.
Will keep you posted. Will take about 2 weeks to get the pickup.
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