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Post by pete1951 on Oct 13, 2021 8:11:57 GMT
I noticed Snakehips is looking for a Highlander bridge/ biscuit could one be made? When I heard about Highlander p/ups ( this must be 25years ago) I naturally tried to make one. At the time I had not thought about copyright, and as I didn’t get a good sound out of it I abandoned the project. This may have been the piezo cable ( the only one I could find was from RS and was stainless steel, so needed special solder or crimps) or the preamp I used( can’t remember what I did) So, does a Highlander sound good if put through a standard guitar preamp, or is it the box of tricks that goes between the guitar pickup and the amp the important bit? Pete
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 13, 2021 8:32:24 GMT
Pete, They do sound okay run through other preamps, but they have to be fitted into the biscuit under pressure so it does not protrude and it essentially becomes a part of the wood biscuit. This is an important part of their design.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Oct 13, 2021 8:38:08 GMT
I must admit to looking at the Sodial Bendable Piezo Cable pickup and wondered what could be done with them.
No affiliation etc,
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 13, 2021 9:17:22 GMT
Pete, They do sound okay run through other preamps, but they have to be fitted into the biscuit under pressure so it does not protrude and it essentially becomes a part of the wood biscuit. This is an important part of their design. Shine On Michael I don’t think I will make another, but it would be fairly simple to get a router bit of the right size and press the cable in. Hopefully someone will make some. There are now a large number of different types of piezo cable available, and it’s not expensive. So experimenting would not cost much. Pete
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Post by snakehips on Oct 13, 2021 12:31:18 GMT
Hi there !
One issue with your Highlander copy design is that you should only have a semi-circle of piezo under the biscuit - on the neck side of the biscuit. You will pick up too much of the string vibrations from the short end, between the tailpiece and the bridge as well otherwise..
I created the problem with my Highlander pickups, pulling them out of the biscuits to install them in other biscuits for other Nationals. Now two of my 5 Highlander pickups don't work properly - on has no sound, and the other has hum, nearly as loud as the amplified strings. What I should have done was leave the pickup in the biscuit - and replaced the saddles only ! Doh ! My fault !!
Finding a flexible omni-directional piezo cable long enough, and of the same diameter as the Highlander pickup, is going to be next to impossible (as I've already looked !). Some of them seem to be fairly cheap, so it wouldn't do any harm for me to try some.
Highlander pickups I have seen already installed (and lifted the cone off the biscuit, the piezo cable does sit a little proud of the slot routed out - so it's not actually flush with the underside of the biscuit. Thus, I suppose the cone outer edge does rest/press on the piezo cable a little. I have never seen the edge of the cone centre well squashed by the slightly protuding pickup - not even a little.
The problem with me removing the piezo cable from the routed out channel is that it doesn't really want to go back in a channel without having to squash it in ! I used a slide to roll in the pickup into the slot - but perhaps the pressure involved contributed to the pickup failing. What I have noticed in each pickup that failed though is the copper braid sheilding was starting to fray, and uncover some of the pickup inside - at the far end of the pickup (the free end, or opposite end to where the the cable is attached).
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 13, 2021 15:17:57 GMT
Re: Hum. The most likely reason is reverse polarity . Could the outer braid be live? This is quite common on electric guitars that have been worked on. Pete
There are a few more questions about this but no time at the moment.
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Post by snakehips on Oct 13, 2021 16:36:42 GMT
Hi again !
Anyone tried the Fishman Nashville biscuit pickup ? I emailed NRP to ask them what they are using instead of Highlander pickups - and they said they are using the Fishman Nashville.
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Post by Michael Messer on Oct 13, 2021 17:16:32 GMT
This is a recent addition to the Fishman catalogue and does appear to be a stab at making a Highlander copy. I haven't tried it yet, but I am interested to do so. I am a bit concerned that their marketing department are confused, because naming a resonator guitar product "Nashville" does not make me think of single cone National style guitars. It's Dobro territory in that neck of the woods. "The Cumberland river is shining like a National guitar"...."The Mississippi river is shining like a Dobro".....hmmm, don't think so. What I have also heard about is running a Highlander, or maybe a Fishman Nashville, through the Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI unit. This was actually brought to my notice by forum member, Martyn Roper, of the Washboard Resonators. I have yet to try it, but it does intrigue me as an interesting concept. The Fishman Platinum does sound very good with regular acoustic guitars. Personally, I am still a microphone person, but there are times when I need to be able to plug in. I have recently moved from Shure SM57s to a Neumann KM184 and it is absolutely excellent. www.fishman.com/portfolio/platinum-pro-eq-di-analog-preamp/This thread has twisted and turned away from it's original post, so maybe tomorrow I will move these new posts into their own thread about pickups. Shine On Michael.
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Post by leedscitystompers on Oct 13, 2021 18:42:37 GMT
The Fishman Platinum Pro EQ rules! 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
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Post by richclough on Oct 14, 2021 8:23:30 GMT
I have the Highlander IP2 (mic/piezo) system on my flat-top acoustic. This was installed in 2006 by Roger Williamson, a UK luthier. He mentioned a few things which may be relevant to this conversation.
- the piezo sits in a routed channel underneath the bridge (which he had to rout out) and it sits slightly proud - when changing strings it's best to leave one string on to stop the bridge moving around, otherwise the foil covering on the pickup can get broken and the pickup damaged
In fact, the piezo did go horribly buzzy 3-4 years ago and had to be replaced. Hopefully, it will last a long, long time...
Best regards, Rich
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Post by snakehips on Oct 14, 2021 9:09:54 GMT
Hi there ! I really like the Orchid Electronics Acoustic Preamp. orchid-electronics.co.uk/acoustic.htmIt's £200 now but an excellent, EASY to use piece of kit. Phantom powered so no batteries or power adapter plugs required. Can clamp onto a microphone stand - but the website picture seems to show an older version, with less than cosmetic mic-stand clamp than the one on my preamp. (I clamp mine onto a leg of my keyboard stand, close to where I'd sit for guitar numbers). Pro piece of equipment.
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 14, 2021 15:07:48 GMT
Having looked at the Highlanders products guide, I think I can see why it behaves better than other piezo units. The cable is a very snug fit in the groove created for it. This is not usually the case, most piezo elements just lie in the channel under the saddle , the Highlander piezo gets pushed hard into the bridge ( or the biscuit on a reso) Looks like they use the same ( or maybe a slightly longer) piezo in their reso and guitar I might have a go after all! Pete The Highlander biscuit pictured in their manual also shows the saddle running with the grain, most biscuits ( make that all ) I have seen the bridge goes across the grain!
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Post by snakehips on Oct 14, 2021 16:34:12 GMT
But is the piezo supposed to be squashed into the slot by the edge of the cone ?
I've always thought the routed out groove and slightly protuding Highlander pickup are just inside of the edge of the cone - so the pickup perhaps doesn't even touch the cone ??? I have noticed that a Highlander biscuit WITHOUT the pickup in the slot (or indeed the tailpiece half of the biscuit slot where there isn't a pickup - the edge of the cone doesn't fall into the slot, or be deformed by string pressure pushing the cone into the slot. What do you think ??
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Post by pete1951 on Oct 14, 2021 16:54:22 GMT
But is the piezo supposed to be squashed into the slot by the edge of the cone ? I've always thought the routed out groove and slightly protuding Highlander pickup are just inside of the edge of the cone - so the pickup perhaps doesn't even touch the cone I have noticed that a Highlander biscuit WITHOUT the pickup in the slot (or indeed the tailpiece half of the biscuit slot where there isn't a pickup - the edge of the cone doesn't fall into the slot, or be deformed by string pressure pushing the cone into the slot. What do you think ?? This does make more sense. I have never had a Highlander biscuit in my hand and made the wrong assumption! Any chance of a photo with very accurate measurements? Pete
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Post by snakehips on Oct 14, 2021 17:04:27 GMT
OK - I'll see what I can do when I get home !
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