National Tricone guitar cones , gaskets and glue

[142victoria]

I have a 1930`s National Tricone square neck guitar. I have owned this guitar for number of years. I have been playing the guitar in a low bass A tuning, not wishing to damage what I thought was maybe original cones I replaced them with new National Resophonic cones I have since become dissatisfied with the lack of warmth in the tone so have decided to put the “original” cones back to see if a improvement can be made.
I have posted a photo of National Reso` cone on top (or left)and “original” on the bottom (or right. Perhaps the photo is not clear the original cone has spirals that are longer than the reso cones, starting at the peak and go as far as the rim. Also the tap tone on the” original” is lower than it is on the Reso . The “original” cones also weighs a tad less than the Reso cones.
First question: Is the “original” cone original and how can one tell it is so?
When I first opened the guitar to put the National Resophonic cones in, there were paper gaskets beneath them, this resembled the looks of masking tape ( but wasn’t). This paper had rotted away so I removed it. I wish to now put back paper gaskets to also see it will round the tone. I am using 0.4mm Flezoid jointing gasket.
My question is do I glue the paper down and if so, what glue to use?

[Michael Messer]

Hello Sam,

Your old cone is an original.

If you want to put gaskets under the cones, my advice would be to use some brown paper and fix it into place with a few dabs of something that would be easy to remove if required. Paper glue, Copydex, or something else that is not going to be a problem to remove. Make sure the sound well is really clean and has no lumpy bits. When you have fitted the gasket and cones and restrung the guitar, give it a week or so of playing and settling down before forming an opinion about what it has achieved.

I hope that is helpful

Shine On
Michael

[bonzo]

Maybe a before and after recording would help. 😎🎸👍

[Mark Makin]

Hello Sam, here is a “secret” from master luthier and National repairer Marc Schoenberger......” the best solution for tricone gaskets is to cut rings from the covers of DC Marvel comics!!”

[142victoria]

Thank you all for your replies.
I get the impression that you are not keen on the 0.4mm Flezoid jointing gasket (the idea for using this came from an Australian resophonic parts web site), I have already cut the rings from this. Do you think this is perhaps too thick? Not being an American I am trying hard to think what a cover of a DC Marvel comic paper might be like (having never owned one).

[bluesdude]

On tricones I've always used a continuous ring made from a file folder glued down with a Childs glue stick, very mild glue. And if you want to bed them down quickly tune a half step higher for a couple of weeks and they bed in fast I've found,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kenny,,

[maui_chimes]

In my opinion, the glue of choice is Elmer's White Glue, just a few dabs is all you need. This glue is mild and water soluble, and you don't want a strong, permanent bond.

[tomgiemza]

I found this old thread, because I was looking form some informations about gasket. I jut got new cones for my tricone (it needed a repair) and since I heard about a gaskets I think about trying them. What material should I choose? Newspaper? Baking paper? Should I glue it down to the soundwell?

[gfirob]

I have a 1930 square neck National Tricone that had not been opened for many years. When we opened it we found the remainders of the original gaskets made of what I would describe as very light cardboard, about the weight of file folders. They appeared (from the printing on them) to be the kind of sheet cardboard that might be put between sheets of polished sheet metal to keep from scratching, but who knows? I removed them and had a problem with rattle on the lower strings after it was reassembled. The cones were original and not collapsed or damaged in any way.

I contacted Marc Schoenberger, who has the best reputation that I know in the US for repair and restoration of vintage and he suggested that I send him the cones for leveling and he would produce replacement gaskets.

His gaskets, like the originals, were made of light cardboard which was cut at regular intervals (like the kerfed linings on the inside of a guitar) to allow for the strip of about 1/2 inch or so width to bend into a full circle without distorting. I don’t remember the charge for this, but it was pretty modest.

This resolved the problem. The subject of gaskets in these old National guitars is one of some disagreement, some say they never had gaskets (they did) some say you don’t need them (they do) some say they degrade the sound (they don’t). I have a 1932 National Style O which had the remnants of green felt under its single cone, so I put a felt gasket in the guitar and it sounds great.