Questions about square neck vs round neck

[calvoi]

Okay - so I am relatively new to the resonator world. I have a question about square neck resonators... 

Obviously you can't play a square neck resonator bottle neck style. 

But to some degree you can play a round neck resonator lap steel style, with a nut extender.


I currently don't play in the lap steel position but I'm slightly curious as to why square neck resonators exist, it seems to me that if every one was made round neck, with different actions, then it would just be more versatile. 


Of course I have missed something but I'm curious to know what. My guesses are:

String tension, the square neck must be stronger. This may have been particularly true historically when we didn't have adjustable truss rods. 
Tone, does a square neck resonator since the neck is thicker transfer more vibration to the body. 
To cater just for steel players, i.e. if you exclusively play lap style why would you want an 'adapted guitar'?
Why not: if people buy it then make it. 

Curious to hear opinions of those who know waaaayyyy more than me. 
Cheers,
Calvoi

[maui_chimes]

IF you look at history, the Hawaiian aka "squareneck" guitar boom (circa 1915) actually predates the rise in popularity of the Spanish "roundneck" steel string guitar (circa 1930).

So the original steel string flat top guitar is really a square neck. The roundneck flat top steel string guitar as we know it did not really exist until the late 1920's and did not become the dominant musical instrument until well after that. Mandolin, ukulele, banjo and Hawaiian guitar would all rise and fall before then.

Square neck guitars (at least wooden ones) are easier to build, so that may be one reason they persisted. Tradition & heritage would be others.

[calvoi]

May 6, 2019 14:17:41 GMT maui_chimes said:

IF you look at history, the Hawaiian aka "squareneck" guitar boom (circa 1915) actually predates the rise in popularity of the Spanish "roundneck" steel string guitar (circa 1930).

So the original steel string flat top guitar is really a square neck. The roundneck flat top steel string guitar as we know it did not really exist until the late 1920's and did not become the dominant musical instrument until well after that. Mandolin, ukulele, banjo and Hawaiian guitar would all rise and fall before then.

Square neck guitars (at least wooden ones) are easier to build, so that may be one reason they persisted. Tradition & heritage would be others.

So the reason for square necks is predominately historical and traditional.

I had not realised that squarenecks predated a roundneck steel guitar. Interesting. 

Thank you for the info Maui_chimes!

[maui_chimes]

May 6, 2019 14:35:00 GMT calvoi said:

So the reason for square necks is predominately historical and traditional.

I had not realised that squarenecks predated a roundneck steel guitar. Interesting. 

Thank you for the info Maui_chimes!

I believe that there were steel string round neck guitars BEFORE the square neck guitar was invented, they just weren't very popular, especially when compared to the appetite for Hawaiian guitars & music that started around 1915. Martin guitars were built for gut strings but could be ordered for steel strings. Knutsen made steel string guitars, starting before 1900. He built both round neck and square neck and I think most people would credit him as the inventor of what we consider the Hawaiian guitar. The Knutsen foundations continued with Weissenborn's work and then National was the next step in the evolution. All of them offered squareneck and roundneck models and you'll find the squareneck Nationals and Weissenborns are much more common today, reflecting the consumer demand of the period.

If you played guitar in 1925 you were probably playing lap style.

[bryanbradfield]

My 1932 round neck (really good) guitar came to me from the original owner with a nut extender in the string pocket. Now I understand why. He never used it as far as I know (the nut extender, that is).

[twtx]

May 6, 2019 11:56:34 GMT calvoi said:

String tension, the square neck must be stronger.
... since the neck is thicker transfer more vibration to the body. 
To cater just for steel players, i.e. if you exclusively play lap style why would you want an 'adapted guitar'?

History aside, I think all three of these are true.

[Michael Messer]

Good morning Calvoi,

I haven't had a chance to read all the posts, but here's my take on it.

Hawaiian steel guitar was very popular in the early part of the 20th century. Square neck guitars were more robust, so better for the high tunings they used, such as AC#EAC#E. Round necks are more likely to bend under high tension. There is more mass, so the tone and resonance is different, solid square neck guitars usually have more sustain. Then there were hollow neck instruments that had more space for the sound waves to do their thing. Square neck guitars are more comfortable resting on the player's leg and raise the fretboard up an inch or so. Solid square neck guitars are easier to build and therefore cheaper to mass produce.

Having said all that; I learnt to play Hawaiian steel and country steel guitar (these days also known as lap style, lap slide and the worst one...lap top guitar!) on a regular round neck National guitar without a raised nut. I played that way for a few years before I got a raised action square neck instrument. It was a useful way to learn because it helped me develop a very light touch and it means that I don't "need" a square neck instrument to play steel guitar, which is very useful when flying to gigs as I only need to take one instrument. I don't tune round necks to high bass, which is a bit of a drawback because I play I like to play steel guitar in high bass G (GBDGBD). I do also play in DADF#AD and DGDGBD, and variations of those. GBDF#BD and EBDGBD are tunings I like to use.

I hope that all makes sense

Shine On
Michael

[calvoi]

Thanks Michael, twtx, maui_chimes that does answer my questions. Very helpful to know.
Cheers
Calvoi

[biscuit]

I always wondered why squarenecks do have real frets instead of markers like lapsteels and pedal steels do - can anyone enlighten me?

[Michael Messer]

In the early days square neck guitars had frets because they were "guitars". That idea has stayed on in the resonator world, but in the electric lap steels, pedal steels and Weissenborn copies, they don't have frets. Frets on National guitars and Dobros were used by the early Hawaiian and vaudeville players in the 20s and 30s, they would scrape the steel along the frets like a rub board for percussive effects.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

The Square Neck exists so you can hold it more comfortably in your lap, although they do make a Special strap for these types of Guitars that could allow you to play both standing up & seated, & it'll help keep the Guitar in playing position. This Gold Tone PBKG Guitar looks like a Standard Steel String Acoustic Guitar from the front, but if you look at it from the back you'll realize right away that it has a Square Neck which makes it a Lap Steel Guitar (sometimes called Lap Slide Guitar). It actually harkens back to the Original Lap Slide Guitar that Joseph Kekuku invented when he was 11 years old (around 1889), which was a Standard Acoustic Guitar w/ a Converter nut slipped in to raise the strings & played w/ a Slide.

[marshcat]

My 1930 style 3 square neck has very attractive inlaid fret markers, presumably a custom order along with the ornate position markers!

Even weirder: I have a style 1 square neck with a radiused fretboard...

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