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Post by creolian on Mar 2, 2019 14:16:36 GMT
Hello Yall,
just wondering if anyone has weighed cones and what if any conclusions...
having dealt with handmade metal parts for race bikes, I used to weigh everything... fuel tanks were especially inconsistent. Frames were ridiculous with the center of gravity varying as much as 5" from one to the next. This of course is exaggerated by welding.
i know that the mass and tensioning of a cone will effect its resonant frequency with a lighter cone being more trebly... same with strings.
I have no Idea, but it's tempting to assume that Paul Beard might make his cones lighter for a more blugrassy sound whereas others might be heavier and more bluesy sounding.
just riffing the thought...
all best,
jeff
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Post by 1928triolian on Mar 4, 2019 10:56:21 GMT
I've been weighing a Continental 9.5 cone: 33 gr;
and a 1930 9.5 National cone: 24 gr.
I don't think that a lighter cone will be more trebly.
A lighter cone will tend to have more and better bass response, more resonance and sweeter trebles.
To me more mass means more harsh.
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Post by snakehips on Mar 4, 2019 11:58:14 GMT
Hi there !
I went through a phase of weighing vintage and repro cones years back, with small digital kitchen scales.
Vintage National cones I had generally weighed 24g, the NRP non-hot rod cones were about 26g (I think I remember), and NRP's Hot-Rod cones came in between, at about 25g.
The last set of NRP hot rod cones I bought though, were about 26 or 27g. They sounded just as good though.
An old Quarterman cone I had (that came in one of my first ebay Nationals) was about 30g.
Make of it what you will, but the lighter they are, they better they seem to sound !!!
I may have even written a post YEARS back on this forum about this very subject.
Can't remember if I just imagined doing it, or actually did !!
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 5, 2019 7:27:43 GMT
More weight will mean more inertia, which would mean a slower ‘start’ but maybe a longer sustain with less volume?? Maybe the most critical thing is the flexibility at the edge of the cone? And thin light cones should be more flexible?.
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 5, 2019 9:27:47 GMT
The weight issue has been covered, but to be 100% sure of our facts we should get the low down from a cone maker. Next time I speak to Mike Lewis I will ask him to comment.
Beard Dobro (spider bridge type) cones are arguably the best available. The only competitor is Continental whose Dobro (spider bridge type) cones are also first class. I don't like having to write this, but Beard National-type cones with no spirals are just useless and I don't understand why they are still manufactured or available on the Resophonic Outfitters website. Really, back in the days when National Reso-Phonic and Continental didn't exist and the only cones available were non-spiralled OMI Quarterman cones, it was excusable. But these days with National Reso-Phonic and Continental leading the way, and the Beard Dobro cones being so good, I just don't see the point. People still buy them because of the manufacturer's excellent reputation, but really! I do not like writing negative comments about great companies that are run by great people, but these non-spiralled 9.5", 8.1/4" and 6" cones are just not up to the mark.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by bonzo on Mar 5, 2019 9:56:02 GMT
Hi Michael, you're calling it as you see it, you've probably seen more cones than the rest of us put together! If attention is drawn to the fact that the cones could be improved then maybe someone at the company will look into the matter.
If nothing is ever said then it may be assumed that everything is okay.
Fair comment I think Michael.
Best wishes to you all, John
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Post by creolian on Mar 5, 2019 11:13:35 GMT
The weight issue has been covered, but to be 100% sure of our facts we should get the low down from a cone maker. Next time I speak to Mike Lewis I will ask him to comment. Beard Dobro (spider bridge type) cones are arguably the best available. The only competitor is Continental whose Dobro (spider bridge type) cones are also first class. I don't like having to write this, but Beard National-type cones with no spirals are just useless and I don't understand why they are still manufactured or available on the Resophonic Outfitters website. Really, back in the days when National Reso-Phonic and Continental didn't exist and the only cones available were non-spiralled OMI Quarterman cones, it was excusable. But these days with National Reso-Phonic and Continental leading the way, and the Beard Dobro cones being so good, I just don't see the point. People still buy them because of the manufacturer's excellent reputation, but really! I do not like writing negative comments about great companies that are run by great people, but these non-spiralled 9.5", 8.1/4" and 6" cones are just not up to the mark. Shine On Michael. Hello All and a happy Fat Tuesday 😎 In my statement regarding a lighter cone being more trebly I was pointing out that a lighter piece of metal will have a higher resonant frequency... like a thinner string or cymbal. Being that a cone is loaded by string tension / break angle and the air chamber behind it, I was thinking maybe a heavier cone would mellow out some of the jangly sound of my nrp delphi. I feel safe in assuming a 25% heavier cone will make any guitar sound different... I don't trust my hearing like I once did but this particular guitar relative to others just doesn't have the low mid punch Im looking for. I think Ive got the break angle right and the guitar sings loudly... maybe Im on a wild goose chase but now knowing cones vary considerably in weight ... weighing them is something Im going to do and see how that might relate to tone. After I Return to earth tomorrow Im going to call Beard and Umanov and see if they have any thoughts regarding cone weight. Off to the Mardi Gras..... All best, Jeff |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 5, 2019 12:20:19 GMT
Hi Michael, you're calling it as you see it, you've probably seen more cones than the rest of us put together! If attention is drawn to the fact that the cones could be improved then maybe someone at the company will look into the matter. If nothing is ever said then it may be assumed that everything is okay. Fair comment I think Michael. Best wishes to you all, John John, I don't think they care. They sell NRP cones, so they know the difference. They have been selling these cones for as long as I can remember, so I guess they sell to people that don't know the difference. Sorry to be blunt about it, but I don't see the point in telling them. Meanwhile >HAPPY FAT TUESDAY & PANCAKE DAY !!!! Shine On Michael |
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 5, 2019 17:59:34 GMT
The first spare biscuit cone I bought was a non-spiral in the early 80s, it sounded dull and uninspired. This was from a specialist shop in the states (the 5th string in San Francisco). It wasn’t until StewMac started to sell NRP ones that I got a good sounding one.
Pete
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