Flat or Radiused Fretboard ?

[oldnewbie]

Hi,

Please be gentle with me; I am only just coming back to playing the guitar after a thirty year break – and discovering that things are somewhat more technical than they used to be!

I’ve done my detailed research and decided that this time I will almost certainly be going with the “Paramount Tricone 1933 Nickel” supplied by a German company called Thomann. (I live in Europe so conveniently situated.)

However, one of the reviewers pointed out that :

“Very good sound, but rather inappropriate for slides. There is nothing to complain about the sound of this Tricone. For people who do not slide, the guitar is perfect – the curvature of the fingerboard, the saddle and the saddle pad and the narrow neck provide smooth playability. But unfortunately, I mainly play with the slide – and for this style of play, fingerboard curvature and string position are an absolute disaster. It is practically impossible to play all or even 4 or 5 strings at once with the bottleneck.”

This reviewer has given me something to think about. Clearly, this guy has a problem with the radius of the fretboard on this particular guitar when using a flat bottleneck. But that is not my problem. I have the opposite problem. I aspire to play mainly straight blues, boogy-woogy, ragtime, maybe some simple jazz and more run-of-the-mill “standards”. However, I would also like to play with a slide occasionally. (Why have a beautiful Tricone Resonator guitar and never play bottleneck?)

So, the question is : “Should I be looking for a guitar with a perfectly flat fret board or one with a slight radius. How much does it matter and what can I do about it?

Interestingly, other reviewers have said things like : “With slide it is really a pleasure.”
And :
“Have bought it as a guitar for Acoustic Blues and have not been disappointed.”
Or :
“The workmanship is very good, the mood is very good and she can sing the blues.”
Or :
“Guitar ideal for blues, country, gypsy jazz and similar music. It has a characteristic sound to Delta Blues.”

Also, there is the date issue. The first review (the one that complains about fretboard radius) is dated very recently (January 2018); while the others are from 2015 and 2017. Have Paramount changed the design in the meantime? Or do they in fact supply both kinds of fretboard? Is this likely?

How important is this? Do I need to clarify this with Thomann before I commit? Or should I (as perhaps a real Bluesman might) work around whatever they send me? After all it sounds like a good guitar in general.

[SoloBill]

Hi,

I suspect you will have to factor in getting someone to set it up the way you like once you have the guitar. It may be OK for you, maybe not; when you buy online from a general supplier you can't tell what it is going to be like as far as setup goes.

I know you didn't ask but it seems expensive for what it is; have you listened to Michael Messer's guitars (I know there isn't a tricone in the range but otherwise they sound fine and you can ask for a setup that allows fingering and slide).

The examples on Thomann's website use a slide.

I personally prefer a perfectly flat fretboard but a slight radius doesn't matter. An old Fender radius is way too uncomfortable for me even playing without a slide.

Bill

[Michael Messer]

Hello oldnewbie,

Welcome to our forum.

The Tricone you are asking about is a generic Shanghai-built guitar. That company wanted to be my distributor in Germany, but when I refused their offer they decided to go it on their own.

The radiused fretboard on the Tricone should be fine for playing slide. There are very few quality control measures in place with both the companies you are dealing with, so your guitar will probably need setting up to get the best out of it.

I don't believe that you should "work around whatever they send me (as a real Bluesman might)". Most of the 'real' bluesmen I have ever been around were extremely fussy about their guitars. The Blues world is full of myths and romantic notions made up by Europeans and Euro-Americans.

I am sure you will be pleased with this guitar, but be aware that Tricones are tricky to build and are prone to having rattles and buzzes.

I am not trying to be negative, just honest and helpful.

Please could you not use size 4 font when typing messages on here, it doesn't make them any more noticeable or legible. Thanks

Shine On
Michael.

[Pickers Ditch]

You could flatten the bridge slot profile which , although the actual fingerboard is radiused, the strings themselves will be a lot flatter.

Not tried that trick myself yet but I know someone who has on an old Strat and it works quite well.

[pete1951]

Action is often a little higher on the bass side, so the curve of the strings is a little flatter than the f/board. I prefer a slight radius, the middle strings have some extra pressure from the slide and (for me) I get a cleaner sound.
PT
The big problem with Far Eastern guitars is quality control. If it looks ok, then it can be sold. Michael Messer has put some of that control in th UK, so the guitars arrive here looking good, and are sold when the also play and sound good.
Not many companies have this extra set-up , some guitars will be great, straight from the box, others will need work.
I would try to find a good player to try any instrument you want to buy if you can.

[Michael Messer]

Thanks Pete.

Not trying to blow my own trumpet or promote my products in any way, but just to clarify that point....

I have many layers of quality control in place. The first is at my manufacturer's where I have a completely different set of quality control procedures in place to any of their other clients. Then in the UK it starts again with checks of every guitar by me. Then setups and more checks being done by one of the most experienced resonator guitar luthiers in the world. And then finally checked and played by me again when they are packed. None of this comes at all cheap, but it does insure that my guitars are good.

One of the companies mentioned in this thread have been known to sell the stock that I have rejected.

Shine On
Michael.

[lexluthier]

Hi! I much prefere a slightly radiused fretboard and my strings flat at the bridge and 'normal' at the nut. It gives a little more action on the treble side which is more forgiving when I'm only playing on strings 5 and/or 6, and it is fairly normal to have the bass side a little higher.
I think you can already see from the comments you've recieved, everyone has a different preferance.

 My MM lightning has a flat fretboard, I wish it didn't but I wasn't going to cut of my nose to spite my face when I bought it since it is so great in so many other ways. So I take your point about adapting to the instrument, unless you're lucky or very patient or willing and able to spend alot, some compromise is usually nessessary somewhere.

I would recommend one of Michaels guitars above anything else in that price point(or a fair way above it!)
A tricone is tricky(er) as they need a good, specialist set-up, more than any other guitar I've ever worked on anyway.
I looked at the Paramount a few years back and decided it was too much of a lottery, even new and out of the box. Too expensive for what you're getting as well!
Today I would probably look at the Icarus brand as they do have some level of set-up and represent good value. Otherwise, I'd be patient and wait for a second hand Busker. Good luck!

Chris

[Michael Messer]

Thank you, Chris.

If I were able to produce a Tricone in China that resembles a 'real' Tricone, like a 1920s or 30s one, I would do it. So far I have not seen anything that comes anywhere near. They are okay funky sounding resophonic guitars, but they have very little in common with an old National Tricone. I would never say never, but not for a while.

Shine On
Michael

[lexluthier]

Hi Michael. I haven't had the exposure to all the instruments you have but I do believe I know what you mean about modern Tricones. No matter what I do to 'improve' them, and they can be improved, I can't get them to produce a harmonically complex sound.
They're all a bit flat, impersonal and uninspiring to my ears, even boxy. I can get them loud, I can get them to sustain but I can't make any of them sound like my train wreck of a 'Continental'.
I've still never heard an origional tricone in the flesh but if my worked over Conti', which is sweet as a nut, is still not the full shilling, then the difference between a Shanghai special and a 20s/30s National must be like night and day.
I REALLY want another tricone in my life but when push comes to shove I can't bring myself to buy a Chinese model, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bond with it.
As well as the quality and correctness of the build itself, I think there's a recipe to make a great Tricone that's more to do with some the subtleties of the ingredience rather than just ticking all the ingredience boxes. Sometimes less is more!

''If you build it, they will come''.

Chris

[oldnewbie]

Hi All, those of you who have been following this thread from the beginning might be interested to know that I did listem to the advice given (mostly) and in the end purchased an MM Lightning from Michael.

[slidefever]

Wise choice!

[thebluesbear( al)]

hi
indeed a wise choice

al

[Deleted]

A Radiused fretboard allows the neck to be made thinner & easier to hold, I found a special Guitar slide meant for Radiused Fretboards & it's called a Dished Slide dished means that it's concave.