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Post by lexluthier on Feb 13, 2017 21:21:07 GMT
Hi! For those, like myself, who don't have access to great vintage gear for whatever reason and are reduced to slavering over books and YouTube videos, this is especially for you.....  There are a number of other videos in this series of guitars that Eric has played a chord on for those interested. Chris |
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Post by snakehips on Feb 13, 2017 23:07:03 GMT
Hi there ! It would have been nice to hear the guitar being played. But then again, that would be missing the point ! The guitar was owned by for a relatively short tome by EC and who knows, may have even been played more by Derek Trucks than EC himself !!! I wonder how many roundneck Tricones are actually used as musical instruments these days, and how many are stored in vaults to gain in value, and how many may still be under someone's granny's bed, still awaiting rediscovery  !!!!!!!!! |
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Post by lexluthier on Feb 14, 2017 0:27:55 GMT
Hi Snakehips! I lay in bed at night wondering pretty much the same kinda thing!
I have to say though, I spent 20+ years trawling carboot sales, auctions, antique and collectors fairs all over the country looking for antiques and collectables AND guitars. I picked up all kinds of axes during that time, loads of Hofners, archtop jazzers and all kinds of vintage to modern electrics, hundreds! In all that time I never even saw a National or any other kind of Reso, pretty rare in the UK!
Just while I have your attenton Sir, I have a request. I have been wanting to ask you to comment on National-Resophonic German silver Tricone Vs a vintage National Tricone as I believe you have both. Much has been said about the differances and I for one would love to your thoughts on the subject sometime, one of your videos would be just fab and dandy if you can find the time!
Chris
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Post by blinddrunk on Feb 14, 2017 15:53:40 GMT
Back in the early '90s, a friend of mine picked up an early '30s Style O for £15 at a car-boot sale. The seller had thought it was a toy!
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Post by snakehips on Feb 14, 2017 17:41:42 GMT
Hi Lexluthier !
The NRP GS Tricone (mine is a Style 1.5) is a different beast to a certain extent than a vintage roundneck GS Tricone (mine is a 1931 un-engraved Style 1).
Firstly, they feel quite different in your hands. NRP guitars in general are a good bit heavier than vintage guitars.
Secondly, the body dimension are different - vintage National bodies (12-fret neck ones ) are slimmer at the neck end - they taper in depth-wise, towards the neck - so feel slimmer under your picking arm.
Thirdly, the neck dimensions are different - the NRP Tricones have a longer scale length than vintage ones - and that definitely feels a bit different. Also, the neck shape is different.
Playability and tone - well, that is very subjective in the first place.
Other than this GS Tricone, I have had quite a few NRP guitars over the years - a 1996 Delphi from new, a Radiotone Bendaway, a Style O Deluxe, a Style 1.5 brass Tricone, an El Trovador, a M1 wood-bodied Tricone, not to mention a Resolectric Junior V2 (aka Resotone, as it's now called, I think). They all felt quite different.
I much prefer the Delphi that I had for 10yrs, neck wise. I haven't really gel'd well with the NRP guitar necks in general - and I really can't put a finger on exactly why - I mean, I have coped with all the vintage Nationals I have (or had) over the years - and they are quite variable too. It's not a snobbery thing as I like the look of them and want to like them better.
I have polished the neck finish on my NRP GS Tricone with "T-Cut" car polish to bring it up to a gloss finish (as best I could) - and I actually find the feel of the neck more enjoyable, and nmore vintage feeling in my hands.
I have tried doing a comparison video in the past - but couldn't get my playing consistent enough (and good enough !!!) to publish it on Youtube. Maybe I'll try again sometime.
My vintage National Tricone neck is tiny - with probably the slimmest necks on any of the Nationals I have ever owned - and that makes it difficult for me to gel with this one too !!!!
I think I'm really a single-cone guy !!!
Not really helping, am I ??? !!!!
They are fairly different beasts.
I did once, for a very brief period have a Beltona Tricone (an early one) - but sold it soon after, to raise funds quickly for the vintage roundneck Tricone. Now THAT guitar felt much more similar to the National Tricone. Beltonas (especially metal ones) are few and far between !
Does that help ???
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Post by lexluthier on Feb 14, 2017 21:53:24 GMT
Hi again! No, that was all great info and stuff I'm sure many others without access will find interesting too, so thanks for that!
I did glean some new facts out of it, didn't know for example that the origionals have tapered bodies like the single cone models.
I'm definately a Tricone guy and hope to splash out on something spectacular someday, so figuring out the old Vs new thing has been a question I've been trying to investigate for quite some time and I can tell you there's not much out there on the subject.
Not to critise but you said nothing about sound which is the main thing I'm trying to get a handle on. I realise it's subjective but I'm ok with that, happy to hear what YOU think.
So much is said about the vintage models, from 'only a small percentage of them are actualy any good and you're better of with the new, consistant NRPs' to 'dispite being not as loud and in your face as NRPs, nothing can beat the sound of the origionals'.
I tend to go for quality(tone) over quantity(volume) sweet over strident and it's unlikley I would get to try a vintage model before I buy. Chances are, like you, I would have to import a vintage example so just keen to hear what you think.(even keener for one of you videos dude!)
Thanks again
Chris
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Post by snakehips on Feb 14, 2017 22:40:16 GMT
Alright, I'll see what I can do !!! (Video wise)
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Post by maui_chimes on Feb 23, 2017 5:39:55 GMT
Not to critise but you said nothing about sound which is the main thing I'm trying to get a handle on. I realise it's subjective but I'm ok with that, happy to hear what YOU think. So much is said about the vintage models, from ' only a small percentage of them are actualy any good and you're better of with the new, consistant NRPs' to 'dispite being not as loud and in your face as NRPs, nothing can beat the sound of the origionals'. You won't often get real information from people who are deeply experienced with vintage roundnecks, because there really aren't many such people. What you will get is a lot of people who have never played an old one and see only the high price tag giving their opinions on the internet. Something to keep in mind. My reality is that the essential sound of vintage tricone can be manipulated more than perhaps any vintage acoustic guitar, with relatively simple changes. So many things influence the sound of the guitar and you can tweak most of them by opening up the guitar. You can swap the engine by changing cones. And then swap it back. You can add or subtract a gasket (of various materials) in various places. You can change the saddle, setup, strings, break angle of the bridge, etc, etc. The difference that just a gasket makes can be profound. Getting one dialed in can be a big job. Once you find the sweet spot resist the temptation to open it back up because it might not sound the same when you put it back together. I personally believe that if your vintage roundneck doesn't sound pleasing to you, the problem is more with the luthier/setup than the guitar itself. It should sound glorious when properly maintained. That takes patience. |
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Post by marshcat on Feb 23, 2017 7:30:51 GMT
Here's a 1929 Style 3 tricone and a 1930 style 2 at work: Incidentally, I think the Clapton tricone is one of the short run with a 'holy well', with 3 triangular holes through the well between the cones. I have a similar style 2; it's a little quieter than a solid well. Marshcat |
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Post by lexluthier on Feb 23, 2017 21:34:31 GMT
Hi Maui_Chimes, Thanks for the post!
I have some understanding of what your saying from my experience with the Continental Tricone I own. It came to me in a terrible state, so bad in fact, I should have returned it. However, after a huge discount and a sense that there could be something good at the end of the road, I kept it and set about performing pretty much what you described and a fair bit more!
After a complete neck-off disassembly, re-assembly and about 8-10 set ups, I finally nailed it. I still have more work I want to do to straighten out the body but it sounds so good as is, Ive just left it alone in fear of losing the sound I have now.
Dispite it looking like a car crash, I still think it's the guitar I would walk out of the proverbial burning house with even though I have much more valuable instruments.
The Continental and a few AXL derived examples are the only Tricones I've had my hands on and while the Chinese examples leave me cold and uninspired, the Continental made me a Tricone devotee, so hence my curiosity about Nationals/National-Resophonics.
Anyway, thankyou for your insights.
Marshcat, your recording has been on my playlist for some time already, thanks!
Snakehips, a video would be great and I'm sure would be much appreciated by more than just myself. No hurry Sir, always best to wait for a propitious moment.
Chris
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!!!!!!!!!
