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Post by snakehips on Feb 23, 2016 7:02:46 GMT
Hi there,
Got two books from my wife for my birthday - both by Stephan Grossman, on how to play Blind Boy Fuller and Blind Blake.
I totally forgot, when I asked my wife to get them for me, that Stephan's TAB system is crap !
Never seen anyone else use this impossible-to-read system !
7 lines, with the fret numbers written between the lines.
The 6 strings are represented by the 6 spaces between the 7 lines, and not the universal 6 lines, representing the 6 strings, with the fret numbers written on the lines.
Will have to distort my vision to try and read this !!
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 23, 2016 11:07:08 GMT
For BBF and BB, you should check out Ari Eisinger's DVDs. In fact, if anyone is interested in buying one, I have a box full of Ari's DVDs and CDs in my office which I keep for his UK visits.
Shine On Michael
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Post by snakehips on Feb 23, 2016 12:15:36 GMT
Hi there,
My duo bandmate, Prof Scratchy, from whom even guys like Michael Roach were trading Blind Blake + Lemon Jefferson with each other (at the last Bishopstock Blues Festival), should be my best method of learning such songs. Alas, despite gigging with him for more than 18yrs now, I have never managed to learn much from him. His fingers are too fast for me !!! He has tried to show me a few things over the years but it goes in one ear and out the other !!
I did get the Ari Eisinger's Blind Lemon Jefferson DVD for my birthday too, so I'll see if I can get anywhere with that one. Does Ari do a DVD for Blind Boy Fuller ?
Thanks !
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Post by bryanbradfield on Feb 23, 2016 23:16:41 GMT
Snakehips, you are complaining about format? Come on, a little adjustment to seeing strings as spaces between lines instead of the lines? When Stefan began publishing books through Oak Publications in the 1960s, the numbers were hand-lettered in between the lines. That is probably the beginning of the current tablatures, which I suspect are machine/computer generated (I haven't acquired a tab book in decades). I feel that Stefan is one of the great players/teachers in the blues genre. I actually prefer that there is not a line running through the fret locations. At my age, I've seen a lot of variations in presenting tab, and if the teacher is someone whose playing I admire, then I'll make the effort to deal with his or her odd tablature choices.
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Post by Stevie on Feb 24, 2016 7:26:37 GMT
Sorry Bryan but I have to agree with Richard, seven lines is a solution looking for a problem. Over time I reckon I could get used to it but I don't have that much time left! Some of Martin Simpson's tab is written on 7 lines and I have to re-write it. One excel spreadsheet and a red pen later and I'm done. I don't see any need to re-work a perfectly round wheel. If others have no problem then great, but I just get hacked off with it. My learning curve is affected by having to re-adjust all the time. Don't forget that we're talking about *paid for* tab here. I guess I'm short on left-field thinking!
e&oe...
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Post by snakehips on Feb 24, 2016 12:21:52 GMT
Hi again,
Many, many moons ago, I bought Woody Mann's TAB book on Robert Johnson - and it was excellent and really easy to follow. What's more, in the section before the song transcriptions, Woody goes into some detail about each tuning RJ used and each key he played in, and the typical chords RJ would use. That info was just about all I needed to get close enough to RJ's songs after that. I'm not looking for note to note accuracy. I would like to get close enough to the overall sound though for Blind Boy Fuller and Lemon Jefferson at least - and I was able to do that with the RJ stuff, from Woody Mann's book.
I'll need to give Stephan Grossman's books more time - but there isn't the same simple system/approach of teaching, like Woody Mann does.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 24, 2016 12:43:57 GMT
Snakehips, yes he does. TAB - personally speaking, I can't be bothered with it. I would much rather watch and listen. I bought a TAB book in about 1978 and never got past page two. Everything I have learnt I either got from dissecting recordings or watching people play. TAB has been a very popular learning tool for decades, so I guess I am in the minority. Stefan didn't invent the concept of TAB, but he was a pioneer of teaching guitar in this way. We owe much of the guitar tuition industry's existence to Stefan. Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2016 13:34:17 GMT
TAB - personally speaking, I can't be bothered with it. I would much rather watch and listen. I bought a TAB book in about 1978 and never got past page two. Everything I have learnt I either got from dissecting recordings or watching people play. TAB has been a very popular learning tool for decades, so I guess I am in the minority. Shine On Michael me too TT
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Post by Malc on Feb 24, 2016 14:37:39 GMT
I sometimes use tab as a guide. Once I have learned a tune I like to try and put my own take on it. Years ago Stephan Grossman's tab taught me Special Rider Blues so I have to thank him for that.
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Post by triconehead on Feb 24, 2016 17:55:19 GMT
Some year ago I bought a book/cd with countryblues by Grossman and I must say the tabs were confusing. I´m used to the old school of notation, so tabs in general is not my first option, but they can be to help sometimes. These ones were not though. The CD was very nice, both for listening and playing along.
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Post by bryanbradfield on Feb 24, 2016 21:59:18 GMT
There are a lot of valid opinions here, and anyone who purchases a product is entitled to full satisfaction. I suspect that my experience is similar to Michael Messer's experience. I used tabs early on in fingerstyle guitar, particularly to understand what John Hurt sounded like in each key he played in. Once I had that in my brain, I had no further need for tabs. Similarly, I read dobro tabs for awhile until I could readily visualize what each player was doing by merely listening to the music. So, I needed the boost in the early stages, but then let my ears and brain take over. I will however repeat that I overcame difficulties in using the tabs in order to reap the benefits. Mind you, there were not a lot of options beyond Grossman that I was aware of in those years.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 24, 2016 22:55:19 GMT
My experience is different because I never got on with TAB, so I have never learnt any songs or riffs from TAB. I have played around with guitars, pianos and drums since I was about seven years old. Through my teens I did nothing else but go to gigs and crank up Marshall amps with my friends. Some of my friends at that time were pop stars and great musicians. When I set myself the task of learning to play the music I play now, in my early 20s, I shut myself away with a couple of guitars and a pile of records for a few years. Then when I resurfaced I moved into a situation where I was surrounded by some of the greatest musicians in the world. Of course I understand that not everybody can do that, or are as serious about playing music as I was and still am. I do not believe that playing the music we love to play, whatever it's called, can be learnt from a book of TAB. I am now a fairly experienced teacher of this subject and while I am happy for students to TAB my lessons, if they feel it helps, I do not use any written assistance to teach. Which note you play on the fretboard is not as important as HOW you play it. Of course you don't want to play the wrong notes, but the right notes played wrong, are no longer the right notes. Each to their own way of doing things I'll stop now.... Shine On Michael
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Post by slide496 on Feb 24, 2016 23:51:45 GMT
I am glad I learned to read tab so I can take notes on what I am trying to learn whether it be a lesson, video or from an audio file, so I can go back and not have to rack my brains months later as to how does that run go again., Other than that, the current tab system, with bars, forms, meters and breaking the notes into whole, half,quarter notes and the like, IMHO doesn't work all that well for teaching slide as music.
I think it's hard for alot of people to use the Workshop tabs. I used to bring them into a graphics program and leave just the notes without any instruction and I think I prefer the simple ones you find on the web, if relatively accurate to the original, combined with the original audio or video if possible - but that's for slide.
I hate to say this but I found that too much was missing from the workshop for slide for me although I don't feel that way about some of the standard playing from Ernie Hawkins, John Miller and I thought the Frank Stokes by Tom Feldmann was really good. I don't play that way any more but I enjoyed the breakdown and looking at the music.
Lawd lawdy, Harriet
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Post by snakehips on Feb 24, 2016 23:55:20 GMT
I only had the one Tabbook before the ones I've just got. Other than the Woody Mann RJ book, I couldn't be bothered with TAB or get much out of it. I just hoped I'd learn a trick or two - that would be enough to make it worthwhile. Hell, I didn't even pay for them ! It was for a birthday present for myself, from my wife.
Thanks for the Ari Eisenger BBF DVD info !
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Post by bryanbradfield on Feb 25, 2016 0:46:24 GMT
the right notes played wrong, are no longer the right notes. To which I reply that it is more fun to ensure that the wrong notes played right are the right notes.
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