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Post by blueshome on Nov 5, 2015 15:45:44 GMT
Hate to say it but the Signature licks book is wrong, RJ played in Spanish (open G), Vasterpol (open D), G standard, A standard, Drop D and C standard. Not necessarily at concert pitch. There is plenty of reliable material about, Woody Mann had an RJ book, Tom Feldman has a complete video lesson.
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 5, 2015 16:52:38 GMT
Robert J. was one of the great interpreters of the Blues, he took from many other players and turned the songs into his own. Trying to play his songs `note-for-note` is hard and not something you need to do , play them in what ever tuning comes to hand and `sounds right`. The feel of the music is the important thing.
Remember- Blues is no all about the notes, but the spaces between them. PT
Go Forth and Play the Blues.......(in Open G if possible )
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 17:38:05 GMT
I agree with you, Pete ... well, to a certain extent. I love playing in Spanish, because it makes a lot more sense to me (or my fingers), but a lot of the songs I like are in Vestapol. I've worked up versions of a few typically Vestapol songs in Spanish, but most of the time, they just don't quite sound right... so, since I have a Fred McDowell book coming any day now, I'll probably be retuning my guitar...
But yes, I don't tend to get too hung up on how someone else played a song. Once I've developed a version that works for me, I'm happy.
As for Love in Vain... I'm not trying to pick a fight, but I'm having a hard time imagining it sounding right in Standard. And, apart from that one stretch to the high E fifth fret, it's quite easy to play in Spanish, I don't see why anyone would bother playing it in Standard (unless they're like me and too lazy to retune). I remember looking at another RJ book (the one that purports to be a "definitive" version) at the time I was working out Love in Vain, and the transcription was very similar to the Signature Licks version, albeit more preciously fussy... I have Woody Mann's slide book (I prefer to work from books over videos), and he presents all of RJ's Spanish songs in Open G.
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 5, 2015 18:40:39 GMT
Mickey, there appears to be some confusion here. ... I have Woody Mann's slide book and he presents all of RJ's Spanish songs in Open G. .... I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Shine On Michael
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Post by snakehips on Nov 5, 2015 18:57:33 GMT
Hi there !
Playing in a different tuning to how the original guy played it can sometimes send you off in another direction - which may turn into something good, but different. But not always !
This guy on YouTube, with a username "Blues Guitar Institute" (ie. this is going to be good !) has a video for an "Elmore James Slide Guitar Lesson".
It's so wrong !!
Check it out :
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Post by slide496 on Nov 5, 2015 21:24:54 GMT
... and he presents all of RJ's Spanish songs in Open G. I think you'll find most of the workshop and Woody Mann type slide teachers, with perhaps the exception of Feldmann are going to to present spanish tuned down to open g regardless of the key the original artist used and many of the pre-war and single acoustic bluesman were recorded both capoed high and tuned low and also between keys a little sharp or flat. IMHO this is done by instructors as they don't know if the equipment you are learning on can bear with going higher or if you are going to break a string. Some teachers will preface the lesson by saying the original artist played in such and such a key. The more I played and extended my scope of learning materials the more I became aware of this.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2015 22:04:19 GMT
Mickey, there appears to be some confusion here. ... I have Woody Mann's slide book and he presents all of RJ's Spanish songs in Open G. .... I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Shine On Michael Sorry. I just mean he presents all the songs RJ plays in Spanish tuning (whether RJ played it in G or A or whatever) as Open G tuning. At the beginning of the book, he gives the equivalent key of the recordings (not just for the RJ songs), but makes a point of highlighting his choice to transcribe all songs in the book in either Open G or Open D, since these have become the standard. (In the book I have, there's only three or four RJ songs, the rest are from other blues singers.
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Post by garrysmith on Nov 6, 2015 16:54:27 GMT
Hi there ! Playing in a different tuning to how the original guy played it can sometimes send you off in another direction - which may turn into something good, but different. But not always ! This guy on YouTube, with a username "Blues Guitar Institute" (ie. this is going to be good !) has a video for an "Elmore James Slide Guitar Lesson". It's so wrong !! Check it out : WOW! That's so rank. I got to about 1:30 before I felt obliged to join you in ripping him a new one. gsgarrymsmith.wix.com/theslideguy
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 6, 2015 18:03:45 GMT
I too, have joined in and commented on YouTube. Something I swore I would never do,ever, but it makes me smile to see a young Scotsman play Elmore James and blow the rest out of the water ('cept maybe Jeremy Spencer in the olden days. )
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Post by blueshome on Nov 6, 2015 18:59:58 GMT
Garry, You can tell where it's going before he plays a note when his "favourite slide" is Pyrex.
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Post by blueshome on Nov 6, 2015 19:08:10 GMT
Mickeyz, I know it's pedantic but Love in Vain sounds right the way RJ played it, i.e. in standard tuning not Spanish. I could give a number of technical reasons for this as to what notes are sounded etc but why bother, that's the way it is. If you like the version you play in spanish, then that's fantastic because you are you and not RJ. Any chance of posting a recording of yourself?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 23:39:33 GMT
Mickeyz, I know it's pedantic but Love in Vain sounds right the way RJ played it, i.e. in standard tuning not Spanish. I could give a number of technical reasons for this as to what notes are sounded etc but why bother, that's the way it is. If you like the version you play in spanish, then that's fantastic because you are you and not RJ. Any chance of posting a recording of yourself? What I can say is that, when I started to learn the song, I found a couple of "official" tabs for the song (which were just as equally insistent that RJ recorded the song in Open G - so it never occurred to me to wonder if it was supposed to be a different tuning), but I didn't really like them either -- they were just too fussy, with fingerings and hand positions that were just too oddly shaped to be at all logical. And they didn't match what I was hearing on the actual recording, which to my ears is just a very pure, simple song. And some of the "lessons" on youtube are so firmly planted in left field... So I ended up throwing out most of the notes the tabs were asking for and just developed something quite simple. It's not perfect -- there are a couple of notes that just don't quite match the melody I'm trying to sing, but that's a compromise I accept for not having to twist my hand up in all sorts of odd positions, or having to retune my guitar back to standard [shudder]. Now, I did find a video of a guy playing the song in standard, and what he was doing makes sense, in terms of ease of playing. But it doesn't match what I hear when I'm listening to the original recording either (although I don't listen to RJ all that much, since the vocal sound on his recordings is just awful. There's no way that's how he truly sounded...but that's another kettle of fish. All I can say is, when I see a golden calf, I instantly become skeptical). Anyway, I guess my point is, when I'm trying to play a song, I look for three things: sound, logic and ease of playing... and not always in that order. Although I feel "logical" and "ease of playing" tend to go hand-in-hand. One day, I'm sure, I'll feel confident enough to post myself playing... There's a video of CW Stoneking playing the song, I like his version of it a lot. He's actually one of my favorite blues guitarists.
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Post by snakehips on Nov 7, 2015 0:42:03 GMT
Hi Pickers Ditch !
It makes ME smile to be called young.... anything !!! Thanks for that !!! I'm actually 44yrs old now. Half a piano !!!
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Post by Pickers Ditch on Nov 7, 2015 7:27:41 GMT
I'm 3/4 of a piano or 3 times my Telecaster so you are young! It's all in the head, though.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2015 7:34:25 GMT
The best part of playing the blues is the older I get, the more "authentic" I sound. Don't know why I'd want to measure myself with a piano -- I'm a little more than twice the scale length of my guitar
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