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Post by slide496 on May 24, 2015 21:39:40 GMT
Thank you MM for taking the time to post the tunings, it augments Pete's lesson and also for the brief history lesson, though I was introduced to Robert Johnson by Al Wilson whom I hung out with and I never had an interest in moving past the memory of that time to look at Johnson's music as something I wanted to attempt.
Lawd lawdy, Harriet
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 10:00:47 GMT
I didn't know about the Centennial Collection - I just bought it. I wish they'd clean up some of the other old blues masters, especially Son House (well, maybe they have, I just don't know about it).
I agree that Johnson plays in tune, or at least his guitar is in tune with itself, which is what's important after all. From a lot of the old blues recordings I've heard, though, not all of the blues singers were bothered if their guitars weren't exactly in tune. Even more modern guitarists like Robert Belfour don't seem to worried about this! I lean toward the school that says Johnson's recordings were sped up on to fit on the 78s. His voice really does sound more natural slowed down a bit.
Anyway, it obviously doesn't matter what I believe. The fact is, the people who were inspired by Johnson were listening to these recordings, not some hypothetically slowed down version. Who knows? Maybe the entire course of musical history would have been changed, and we'd all be arguing about the proper tempo at which to play a polka?
I like Woody Mann's approach in his slide book -- he separates the songs into Vestapol and Spanish tunings, and just makes a note of the key one has to be in/capo to in order to play along with the recordings. The Johnson books I've seen take far too of a religious attitude to Johnson's tunings and his playing. For my taste, anyway.
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Post by bod on May 26, 2015 10:53:19 GMT
I didn't know about the Centennial Collection - I just bought it. I wish they'd clean up some of the other old blues masters, especially Son House (well, maybe they have, I just don't know about it). ... That Centennial Collection is great; truth to be told, I didn't really get the big fuss about RJ until I got a copy - made a big difference to my appreciation of his work for me to be able to hear his stuff so much more clearly. (Amazing what they can do, in terms of restoration these days really...) Re. Son House, I don't know if you've got or have heard the Clarksdale Moan double cd released a year or two ago, but that's pretty clean, IMO (all from the 30s and 40s, and all restored and remastered, if I recall correctly). One of my very favourites, I'm especially fond of the stuff recorded at Klack's Store... First time I listened to it I was astounded, and found myself thinking, 'I didn't know Son House was that good', shortly followed by the thought, 'Hell, I didn't know anyone was that good!'...
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 12:35:25 GMT
I've been listening to the Centennial Collection all afternoon -- WOW! It really does change everything. I don't feel bad for rehashing this tired old subject now, since it allowed me to discover the existence of these new versions. I still feel the songs are a bit fast -- I can't believe he sang with such a high, reedy thin voice. But it really doesn't matter anymore. It's like being in the room with the guy. I'll just pretend we're all hopped up on coke. Thanks for the Son House tip, I'll check it out.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 26, 2015 14:14:34 GMT
I am pleased you like the Centennial Collection!
One of the reasons they sound so good is because rather than remaster from the original vinyl releases, which is the source of all other RJ releases, they used clean original 78s wherever possible. Those original vinyl records were never mastered well in the first place and the speed was not all correct. They also sound thin and way too much mid range, no top or bottom, so they sound thin. They never speeded up anything to fit on 78s, the speeding up happened with the various transfers along the way...from 78 to tape to vinyl to CD etc. we know that the pitch and speed is now correct on the Centennial Collection because they used software to identify the electrical hum in the background and knowing what pitch that hum is at, they were able to master the recordings at the correct speed. So whatever one might think, RJ did sound like he does on the Centennial release.
When I was signed to Catfish Records in the early 2000s I used to be quite involved in remastering and cleaning up old 78s, so while I am not by any means an expert on the subject, I have been around the remastering of dozens of prewar blues records.
The Son House collection tha Bod mentioned is really well worth getting. Once again, everything that predates it is just not as good to listen to.
It's a fascinating subject
Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:05:55 GMT
Okay... TELL me they've done this for Skip James' early recordings? The quality of what I've heard is really abysmal for such an amazing player.
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Post by bod on May 26, 2015 18:23:37 GMT
Okay... TELL me they've done this for Skip James' early recordings? The quality of what I've heard is really abysmal for such an amazing player. I know Pristina Audio had a go at sorting out some early Skip James' - link - not got that one myself, so can't say how well it came out... I do have their Charley Patton cd and am very pleased to have it, but even post-clean up a couple of the tracks are a bit noisy... And back to the thread: Hi Pete, just for round to watching your video - I enjoyed it and got some stuff to think about, thanks.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 26, 2015 19:01:17 GMT
The only decent Skip James I know of was released by UK label, Snapper. It is called Cypress Grove Blues. It is not perfect, but I think it is better than the Pristine Audio one. It was actually remastered in my time at Catfish Records, although I wasn't involved with this album. Catfish, Snapper.... same family of labels. When Catfish went down, Snapper picked up some of their catalogue.
Shine On Michael
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Post by blueshome on May 26, 2015 20:26:17 GMT
Only one quibble with MM's Johnson tunings - Dust my Broom is played out of Drop-D.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 26, 2015 23:09:13 GMT
Thanks - Well spotted, Phil!
There had to be one mistake, I just wrote that list from memory. I was testing myself to see if I could list all the songs and tunings without referring to any notes.
Shine On Michael
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