Robert Johnson songs not normaly played in Spanish(open G)

[pete1951]

So here we have me playing some RJ stuff in `Spanish` . I hope you will give it a go and start playing in more keys. The RJ songs are all mostly in D so I will do a second video doing other keys, and if anyone has any questions I can show you how I do things.
PT

[Deleted]

Excellent - great playing.
Kind hearted woman does seem 'easier' played in open D (+/- his pitch) though.
Could he have retuned / had two guitars?
Working through your vid again....
TT

[thebluesbear( al)]

Hi

that was enjoyable pete , please do some more

al

[Deleted]

Love the guitar you're playing -- what is it?

[gordon]

Thanks for that Pete, shows how well Spanish works for you and how much fun you can have with it !
I like your playing, and I'm curious about the guitar too ...

[Michael Messer]

I have always liked Pete's playing.

What this really shows is that you can play any tune in any tuning. The notes are there, but it may or may not be the right voice for a song, which is why a particular tuning is used. My friend and master of Indian slide guitar, Manish Pingle, plays everything, and I mean everything, both Indian and Western music, with a three string 1 5 1 ( D A D ) tuning on his Mohan Veena.

Perhaps this thread will inspire other forum members to show us some of their own techniques.

Good one Pete!

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

Hi Pete.

Very enjoyable. I'd be interested in knowing more about your method of working out the songs. Do you start with single note melody and then embellish the tune with chords?

[Michael Messer]

....I meant to mention in my post that as a guitarist who only plays in open tunings, I also play most of RJ's non-slide pieces in Spanish tuning. I don't believe that RJ did, but it works for me and it works for Pete.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

I've been doing this with Open D songs - jumping the melody lines down a couple of strings to make them work in Open G.

Seems to me a lot of songs can be "translated" to Hill Blues style by doing this too? I'm working on a version of 16 Tons in Open G...seems to sound okay.

[pete1951]

May 17, 2015 20:12:36 GMT gordon said:

I'm curious about the guitar too ...

The guitar was a `faux`(is that how you spell it) `30-early40s resonator, which have squeezed a 9 1/2 cone into. It is short scale, so if I want I can tune it up to Bflat. It had been stripped when I got it so I did a Triolian paint job.

[beaverHausen]

Nice!

Does anyone know if there is any tab available anywhere for playing RJ songs in open D/G?

Crossroads being one I just need to learn..

[Deleted]

Crossroads is in Open G or thereabouts. Spanish Tuning anyway -- the available tabs all seem to be based on the fantasy idea that Johnson would have invented new tunings for all his songs. I tend to agree with the school that says the songs are all speeded up, and I agree with Pete here that he probably stuck to the same tuning for most/all of his songs. Look for the speed/pitch corrected versions on youtube.

You can find the tab in the RJ Signature Licks books, probably in the newer Transcriptions book, and no doubt plenty of other places. Just ignore their tuning/capo instructions and play it in Open G. That's what I do with most of the RJ songs I'm working on (I haven't tried Crossroads yet).

My own personal theory is he played on a short-scale parlor guitar, which is accounts for some of the stretches the tabs give. But I tend to toss away the Johnson tabs once I've got a basic idea of the song's riff. I know it's heresy to say it, but I don't understand why Johnson is considered such a legendary guitarist. Seems to me plenty of guitarists played like this, or even better. People like Skip James -- now he really sounds original.

[Michael Messer]

Sorry, but isn't this all old ground that has been well trodden.

We know what guitars RJ recorded with, we know what pitch and speed the songs recorded at, and we know that he used three types of tunings; Standard tuning, Spanish and Vasterpol. I don't understand how anybody could think otherwise. Sure, I play some of his standard tuning pieces in Spanish, but that is because I don't play in Standard. However, it is fairly obvious when listening to RJ that he played them in Standard. There isn't a question of doubt, because we can hear the intervals of the notes and I know people who can replicate those pieces note for note.

There is nothing odd about the stretches RJ did with his left hand. There is no reason to think he didn't use a capo. There is no reason to think he didn't change tunings. Forgive my outburst....but I just don't understand all this!

These legendary blues musicians that we all admire so much, were among the greatest guitarists that have ever walked this Earth. Of course it's difficult to do it like they did! It's also quite difficult to play like Segovia, Django Rheinhardt and any other of the GREATS that you care to mention.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

I consider those "standard" tunings -- I'm referring to the indications I have in the Signature Licks books that has the guitar tuned to Open A then downtuned a half-note then capoed at the 2nd fret... I find this too elaborate. To me, that suggests he played the song in Open G, tuned as best as he was able at the time (since they didn't have Snark tuners back then.)

[Michael Messer]

Kind Hearted Woman Blues - standard tuning
I Believe I'll Dust My Broom - standard tuning
Sweet Home Chicago - standard tuning
Ramblin' On My Mind - Vesterpol tuning
When You Got A Good Friend - standard tuning
Come On In My Kitchen - Spanish tuning
Terraplane Blues - Spanish tuning
Phonograph Blues - standard tuning
32-20 Blues - standard tuning
They're Red Hot - standard tuning
Dead Shrimp Blues - standard tuning
Crossroad Blues - Spanish tuning
Walkin' Blues - Spanish tuning
Last Fair Deal Gone Down - Spanish tuning
Preachin' Blues - Vesterpol tuning
If I Had Possession Over Judgement Day - Spanish tuning
When You Got A Good Friend - standard tuning
Phonograph Blues - standard tuning
Stones In My Passway - Spanish tuning
I'm A Steady Rollin' Man - standard tuning
From Four Until Late - standard tuning
Hellhound On My Trail - standard / could be in Vesterpol tuning
Little Queen Of Spades - standard tuning
Malted Milk - standard tuning
Drunken Hearted Man - standard tuning
Me And The Devil Blues - standard tuning
Stop Breakin' Down Blues - standard tuning
Traveling Riverside Blues - Spanish tuning
Honeymoon Blues - standard tuning
Love in Vain - standard tuning
Milkcow Calf's Blues - Spanish tuning

While I agree that Robert Johnson did not have the luxury of a Snark tuner, or a tuner App on his iPhone, I disagree totally that he didn't know what key he was playing in. In the 1930s they had pianos, harmonicas and tuning forks, the latter of which would have been in most musicians guitar cases. When I was young we used pitch pipes and tuning forks and were always in 'concert' tune/pitch. They also had capos in the 1930s, so it is highly likely that RJ capoed to the key of B flat in Spanish tuning just like you and I would. There is just no way that a guitarist as brilliant as RJ would not be able to tune his guitar properly and in concert pitch. If he wanted to play in the key of G, he knew exactly how to tune so his guitar was in concert G.

Regarding the true pitch of the recordings; well this was all ironed out by Andrew Rose at Pristine Audio in France and Stephen LaVere (owner of King of Spades Music and producer of the Sony Columbia Legacy 'Centennial Collection' double CD package), when he oversaw the 'Centennial Collection' mastering and re-mastering sessions. Anyone listening to the original vinyl releases, the 1990s Columbia box set and anything else that predates the Centennial Collection, is missing out.

Shine On
Michael