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Post by snakehips on Nov 1, 2014 9:46:10 GMT
Hi there ! There is a nice guy in Edinburgh I've got to know a bit in the last year, who has another nice National for sale. I went to see it for anyone that is interested in it. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1929-National-Triolian-Resonator-Guitar-Polychrome-Hula-Girl-OHSC-Rare-/281479627859?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276The body is in very good structural condition. Paintwork - while I'd think it is impossible almost to find one this old being mint, this one is in very good condition Laminate layers - no sign at all of any seperation or splitting. Neck looked straight to me, looking from the headstock down towards the body. Perhaps a slight bend consistent with normal string pull. Tuners look and work in fantastic condition. Headstock in great condition. Fretboard and frets are in really good condition considering it's age. It doesn't look heavily played. It definitely needs a neck reset. There is vertiually no break angle over the biscuit bridge. The bridge and slots have been shaved down a lot. We didn't open up the guitar to check how good the cone looks shapewise BUT it sounded nice and fat on the bass strings, as there was a bit more break angle over those strings (the slots are a bit higher on those strings). In my non-expert opinion, but having been through at least 10 vintage Nationals needing various levels of restoration work to have some sort of an idea what Iam talking about, I'd say this guitar will only need a neck reset to bring it back to being a wonderful guitar. I'll not be bidding on it as my guitar buying funds are fully depleted now, after buying another Elmore Kay dreadnought acoustic !! From the serial number, using Mark Makin's book as a guide, I'd say the guitar dates to just before August 1928. Check out the back of the guitar. Lots of plum highlights, making the guitar less yellow. A plus in my book ! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2014 10:31:13 GMT
Can you please stop putting temptation in my way snakey!
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Post by zak71 on Nov 1, 2014 13:16:22 GMT
The neck looks like it has a subtle V shape, or is that just the wear on the finish giving that effect? i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/C~oAAOSwZkJUTlcx/$_57.JPGMy wooden '29 has no trace of V whatsoever, it's a very wide C shape. That's not the cleanest one I've seen but it is one of the nicer finish color combinations. Do wood bodied Triolians really fetch that much in Europe? That price is almost $6400! People usually have selling them for the price of a steel bodied Triolian (+/-$3000) here, they usually go for less. I'm surprised to see it priced so high. |
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Post by waffle on Nov 1, 2014 13:53:38 GMT
It looks nice as you have said with some nice plum tones there.it's a bit high on the price for me i think, but i suppose they don't come up that often in all original condition.I have one from 1929 and it has the wide C shape neck too...they are fantastic sounding guitars and are feather light on the knee.Maybe a customer at the time wanted the V shape neck?
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 1, 2014 13:55:51 GMT
Hi Zak,
That is a very high price for wood bodied Triolian in good, but nothing special, condition. I would expect to pay around 1500 GBP less that they are asking.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by zak71 on Nov 1, 2014 16:27:25 GMT
No one noticed that the guitar's 17th fret has been pulled out?
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 1, 2014 17:07:49 GMT
I didn't look through all the photos, just had a look at a couple. There was nothing unusual about it, so I didn't go in deeper.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by zak71 on Nov 1, 2014 17:31:55 GMT
From the serial number, using Mark Makin's book as a guide, I'd say the guitar dates to just before August 1928. The serial number 1521 would date it to the summer of 1929, not 1928. Mine's about 150 serial numbers earlier, in the 1370s. It has a nice color to it, but it is not the cleanest one I've seen. |
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Post by snakehips on Nov 1, 2014 22:07:49 GMT
Hi again !
Sorry, just a wee mistake in my typing. Yes indeed, the guitar dates to 1929.
I'm only reporting what I saw, in person, with the guitar in my hands.
The strings on the guitar were old/dulled and light guage and there was very little break angle and over the bridge BUT the cone still sounded good.
I must admit I didn't notice a fret missing at all.
I have emailed the seller to confirm whether the fret is missing or not. We will see.
Yes, it looks like it in the ebay photos though.
Price ? Well, that's up to the seller.
Condition ? OMG guys ! How perfect does it need to be before you don't slag it off ?
I've seen quite a few in poor condition, delaminating etc.
Surely a good one like this, after it's had a neck reset , is one more of the few, saved ?
With a neck reset, that guitar is gonna be a monster !
I've got no financial interest in this guitar. However, I've been there so many times when I'm interested in an expensive guitar, far away from where I lived, and wished there was someone I knew and/or fairly trusted to go see the guitar in the flesh and give an honest appraisal/opinion of the guitar.
OK, perhaps I'm not 100% ideal if it turns out that I didn't spot a missing fret, but better than not having someone see the guitar. And it's not just seeing the guitar, it's meeting the seller and trying to judge what they are like - dodgy or trustworthy. The seller IS a nice guy.
As for the missing fret - I'd definitely spot it if it was one of the first 15 frets - and that would bother me, as I'd want to use it.
But, way up the fretboard extension, it wouldn't bother me much as it certainly wouldn't be a fret I'd use.
Trying to find a correct size/width replacement fret and have it fitted and make blend in with the rest (ie. not shiny new) would be difficult I'd assume - so I wouldn't be all that bothered about replacing it.
I did look at the fretboard extension though, as I was pointing out to the owner that the screws holding down the fretboard extension to the body are not under fretboard position dot inlays. On these wood-bodied Triolians, the position dots are only painted/stencilled on. The screws are not even on the same frats as the dots, as in almost all other Nationals.
So, I was pointing out to the seller that to reset the neck of this guitar, the fretboard extension screws need to come out. The screws are hidden by, I think wood dots, painted over, to match the rest of the painted fretboard. Once the neck is reset, it might be a bit difficult getting the colour right over the screws and hence hiding the fact the neck has been off. Maybe I'm wrong - some talented luthiers can probably do a great job.
My point though is that I did look at the fretboard extension a fair bit BUT didn't notice a missing fret. Oh dear, if it is missing.
Need an eye test !
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Post by zak71 on Nov 2, 2014 0:14:09 GMT
Condition ? OMG guys ! How perfect does it need to be before you don't slag it off ? Haha I'm not "slagging it off" - I think it looks beautiful, and as you pointed out it has more plum coloring than I am used to seeing. I love that color. I'm just astounded at the seller's asking price, even if it didn't need a neck reset. I don't know what it's like in the UK, but here wood bodied Triolians struggle to get 80% of a steel bodied Triolian's asking price. I guess most people want a metal guitar, and the demand for the early wood bodied guitars is pretty miniscule. I've seen them with much less paint loss, with neck issues already having been addressed, not selling for $3500. Right around the time I got mine, a friend of mine was selling this one - probably the cleanest one I've seen (not nearly as exciting in terms of the color, though). Unfortunately the touch-up work on the fretboard after its neck reset was done carelessly - something that can always be corrected later, I guess:   As for the missing fret - I'd definitely spot it if it was one of the first 15 frets - and that would bother me, as I'd want to use it. But, way up the fretboard extension, it wouldn't bother me much as it certainly wouldn't be a fret I'd use. It isn't so much an issue of a "useful" fret being absent, it's just that when people remove the upper frets, it is because the fingerboard extension is at an angle to the neck once the neck has been pulled up by string tension, and the the strings hit the upper frets when the bridge is shaved down to lower the action instead of the problem being addressed correctly with a neck reset. Once the neck is reset, it might be a bit difficult getting the colour right over the screws and hence hiding the fact the neck has been off. It can be done. Here's mine after a neck reset:  |
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Post by snakehips on Nov 2, 2014 0:14:17 GMT
Update
The seller just got back to me.
The fret IS missing.
I didn't detect any damage around this region of the fretboard, so I can't imagine why the fret is missing.
Perhaps it was high and caused string buzz - and a previous owner took the fret out - instead of having a luthier take the fret down level with the rest.
Considering what fret is missing, would it put you guys off, if all else was good about the guitar (knowing it needs a neck reset) ?
Maybe not at the price he is asking but it wouldn't put me off the guitar overall though.
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Post by zak71 on Nov 2, 2014 0:18:44 GMT
Perhaps it was high and caused string buzz - and a previous owner took the fret out - instead of having a luthier take the fret down level with the rest. Considering what fret is missing, would it put you guys off, if all else was good about the guitar (knowing it needs a neck reset) ? Maybe not at the price he is asking but it wouldn't put me off the guitar overall though. I'm almost certain that's why the fret was removed, I've seen it done many many times by people postponing an inevitable neck reset. I don't see anything wrong with that guitar other than the asking price, in terms of color it's one of the nicest ones I've seen. |
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