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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 7:44:02 GMT
G'day, I'm new here from downunder. I love Resonators. This looks like the place. My main Reso is this '33 National Triolian. I could discuss these for hours.   Gooodonya. |
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 21, 2014 8:36:07 GMT
G'day Polly,
Welcome to our forum.
This is definitely the place to spend hours discussing the ins and outs of resonator guitars, and the music we play on them.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 10:19:30 GMT
Thanks Michael, I'm sure I'll spend hours here reading the backlog of threads. I also have a Gretsch Honeydipper, RK Tri-cone and a Hohner Spider bridge. In this thread though, I'll talk about the Triolian. I have a few questions along the way. I bought it about a year ago on ebay (a gamble) from a seller in Ohio. I'm no expert, but I'd been looking and researching these for a while and from the pictures, it looked absolutely original except the obvious play wear. Fortunately, this is the case, all original parts, unmolested and with the original case.    I contacted the seller for some more information on the guitar's history, and received this reply - "This was purchased brand new during the Great Depression era here in the US, as a gift for the woman I bought it from. She is in her 90's and has been teaching guitar since she was 14. An amazing woman who has taught 100's of students guitar, accordion, pedal steel, harmonica, piano, banjo, mandolin, and many other instruments. She played the guitar you bought extensively through her long career in music." This particular guitar actually features in the Brozman book in the timeline of known examples, one of the last of the 12 fret models and just after the introduction of rolled F holes. More later. Goodonya. |
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Jun 21, 2014 10:19:58 GMT
Hi Polly
welcome, where abouts are you ? i went to school down under ..... here is certainlythe place to be reso wise
al
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 10:25:09 GMT
G'day Al, I'm in Tasmania now, but grew up in Western Sydney.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 21, 2014 10:46:24 GMT
Hi Polly,
It's a beautiful guitar with an interesting history.
In Mark Makin's book, (Mark actually helped Bob assemble the serial numbers list in his book) which has many more numbers than Bob's book from 25 years ago, yours (2204P) is the first number listed as a 'short rolled F holes' Triolian. That doesn't mean it was the first, but it is the first in the serial numbers that we have knowledge of. 2266P is the last of the 12 fretters that we have listed, and 2273P is the first of the 14 fretters listed. It is by no means definitive, because we do not have a list of every National made, but it does give us a pretty good idea of when the changes were made.
Could we see a close up photo of the F holes please .........because while your guitar is listed as a rolled F holes instrument, in the photos they look like long flat F holes?
If you are interested in all things resophonic and Dopyera-related, I would highly recommend Mark Makin's book, 'Palm Trees, Senoritas and Rocket Ships!' It is quite expensive to ship to Australia, but I promise you that you wouldn't regret it.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by wolvoboy on Jun 21, 2014 11:27:23 GMT
Hi Polly,
love your Triolian just going through the photo,s some nice shots of the felt gasket thats fitted to your guitar, i'm sure some of the forum members will find interesting as there is an ongoing discussion about felt gaskets at the moment.
wolvoboy
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 11:27:36 GMT
No worries Michael, I'll try and get those Photos within the hour. Mate it's so good to find people with an interest and knowledge. I'd assumed that the F holes were rolled, but I've got nothing to compare them to. The edges may just be smoothed with wear or paint. The edges are certainly not as rounded as the Gretsch but that's a thick brass body. I'm trying to locate the camera with Super Macro. Another thing that puzzles me is the finish. I know they used a galvanized coating in the late 20s, but by the time mine was made, they had stopped this because of flaking paint problems. Well mine has definitely got the galvanized layer and obviously the paint issues. You can see how it's been worn away with a tapping thumb pick as well as the rim and in other spots An old body maybe? It's definitely 2 piece. I've felt around the front seam with a wire, it's smoothe. I'll get the F hole close ups. Goodonya.  |
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 11:32:14 GMT
Hi Polly, love your Triolian just going through the photo,s some nice shots of the felt gasket thats fitted to your guitar, i'm sure some of the forum members will find interesting as there is an ongoing discussion about felt gaskets at the moment. wolvoboy G'day Wolvoboy, Yeah I was going to get to the inner shots. I was a bit worried about Michael's scorn after reading his thought on opening resos. I had a good reason though  Goodonya. |
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Post by snakehips on Jun 21, 2014 11:34:40 GMT
Hi there !
Your guitar definitely has "flat-cut" F-holes as opposed to the later, shorter rolled F-holes.
See these pics of two Polychrome Triolians :
I own the later, lighter&brighter yellow 1933/4 more worn one, with the rolled f-holes.
My band mate Prof Scratchy's 1932 one is the slightly darker/murky yellow one with the longer flat-cut F-holes :
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 21, 2014 12:01:40 GMT
I too am 99.99999999999% sure it is a flat F holes guitar, I could see that at first glance. It was the first thing I noticed. However, because I have seen so many anomalies with National guitars and because I cannot see that photo in detail, and because it's listed as a rolled F hole guitar..... so to be 100% certain and to correct the history books for future collectors, I would like to see a close up.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 12:07:18 GMT
G'day Snakehips, yeah, no doubt about it. I've got the long flat-cut holes ,cool. Here's the close-ups.    |
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 21, 2014 12:42:03 GMT
Absolutely! Now we are 100% sure.
I have seen all the serious collectors, dealers and researchers, get caught out occasionally. So it is very important not to give a 100% positive opinion of something until we are 100% positive.
Among the many mistakes in identifying differences and variations in National models that I have seen the experts make, I once bought a mint condition Style 4 Triplate from one of the UK's most respected vintage guitar dealers at the time, who told me on the phone before I had seen it, that it was an 'okay, but used condition Style 2 with some extra engraving'. It turned out to be one of the most important mint condition and beautiful style 4 Nationals that has ever turned up.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by snakehips on Jun 21, 2014 13:11:37 GMT
Was that "The Harry" ?
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Post by polly on Jun 21, 2014 13:40:42 GMT
It's great to get that sorted out Michael. Like I said, I'd seen the Brozman book and not really given it a second thought. Correcting the history books eh? Cool. I have scoured the internet looking for a similar finish on a Triolian. It's green, and I believe Pea green was introduced around '32, but it doesn't look like any of the other green examples I've seen. The color looks different in different light settings, from darker green in indoor lighting to lemon yellow in bright sunlight.   In this video Marc Shoenberger demonstrates two green Triolians. S/Ns - 2003P and 2182P. Mine is 22O4P. Similar, but not the same. Thank everyone for your interest, Goodonya. |
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