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Post by resolive on Apr 6, 2014 2:35:52 GMT
Hello all, it's my first post on this forum. I was looking for some information regarding resonator setup and google took me here so I thought I'd register. I've had a Republic Duolian for about 9 months, which I finally got after years of yearning. :-D I bought it used, and when I got it I believe it was probably setup for slide because the action was fairly high and it was strung with ski lift cables.  Ouch. I changed the strings to ease the pain, at the time I wasn't interested at all in playing slide, only fingerpicking, and I had it setup with a lower action. I love that thing! I got Mark Hanson's Travis picking first book and had a blast with it. Then I ordered #2, and being in the mood to try new stuff I bought an instruction book from Bob Brozman. I had tried slide before, for about 20 minutes (!), and never really wanted to bother with it but I gave it another try when I got the book and am really enjoying it so I want to develop it. Problem is now my action feels a little bit on the low side. I'm concerned that it'll take me longer to learn if my setup isn't quite right (and let's face it I'm not getting any younger so why waste time!) so I'm thinking of giving it a good tweak so that it'll work for both fingerpicking and slide. I'm planning on precisely measuring the action for each string tomorrow and talk to the guy who set it up for me last time to see which strings he put on because I didn't even think of asking last time  (I had some John Pearse 600L before that but I don't know if he put the same thing on, and with the lower action it's hard to compare). I was initially thinking that maybe I could try to cut two slots for each string in the saddle, one for fingerpicking and a higher one for slide, but it's probably a wacky idea, so I'll probably just get a new biscuit and try my hand at cutting it (maybe I'll get two! :-D) and reach a good compromise for both slide and fingerpicking. I'm just wondering if people have any advice on how to do it. I have to remove strings, cover plate and cone to access the bridge screw, right? Be very careful not to load the cone unevenly... I've read all the instructions on littlebluesbrother.com... is there a 'universal' action setting for slide and fingerpicking? Maybe now would be a good time to order a chicken foot-style cover plate! Thanks in advance for any advice. Cheers! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2014 7:03:08 GMT
Hi.
Put some heavier strings on 13-56 and maybe the low action will 'feel' better.
I don't think anyone does the two slots in one saddle for different styles - don't bother.
Aim to get the strength in your hands to fret / fingerpick and slide even with a moderate action and heavy strings - do this by playing a lot.
I'd learn to play before changing the coverplate - it looks fine.
TT
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Post by bod on Apr 6, 2014 12:37:48 GMT
Hi resolive,
You've come to a good place for reso info, slide info and tips, too - there's a ton of it in old threads and it is often worth trawling through, the search function is pretty good too. As it goes, I dug around here (and elsewhere) for recommendation for hybrid setups not so long ago... In short, there is no universally preferred setting, which is not too surprising. Preferences / recommendations vary. That said, Busker Guitars - who set up many resos for a wide variety of people - tend to go for around 3mm at the 12th fret on the bass side and 2.5mm on the treble.
Some others prefer a slightly lower or higher action, some seem to prefer to have the action a tad higher on the treble side than the bass...
If, when you measure it, your action is already somewhere close to this you might want to see if more practice adjusts you, as it were, before seeking to adjust the instrument. If it is way lower, the Busker default setting might be a good 'base camp' to explore from.
As TT suggested, you might find that slightly heavier strings help - 13-56 might sound like they'd be too heavy for your taste (and fingers), but not all brands have the same tension (round core strings like Newtone MM Nationals come up to pitch at a lower tension than the hex core strings in equivalent gauges).
On a different trajectory, it is perfectly possible to play slide on lighter strings - you just have to practice being light of touch, which can be a good thing... Unless your current setup is giving you loads of grief, I don't imagine it will hold you back too much.
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Post by resolive on Apr 6, 2014 21:30:47 GMT
Hi. Put some heavier strings on 13-56 and maybe the low action will 'feel' better. I don't think anyone does the two slots in one saddle for different styles - don't bother. Aim to get the strength in your hands to fret / fingerpick and slide even with a moderate action and heavy strings - do this by playing a lot. I'd learn to play before changing the coverplate - it looks fine. TT Thanks for the advice (minus the "learning to play before changing the coverplate" thing, for one I've been playing guitar for 20 years or so believe it or not, and for two even if I was a beginner I don't get the reasoning behind it  , even beginners have the right to mess with their gear...). I think you're right though, I probably got the hand strength to up the string gauge by now (the other day I messed with my strat which is strung with 9-42s and the strings felt like spaghettis!), that might be enough. But I've read somewhere that a greater break angle on the saddle improves the response of the cone). |
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Post by resolive on Apr 6, 2014 21:32:31 GMT
Hi resolive, You've come to a good place for reso info, slide info and tips, too - there's a ton of it in old threads and it is often worth trawling through, the search function is pretty good too. As it goes, I dug around here (and elsewhere) for recommendation for hybrid setups not so long ago... In short, there is no universally preferred setting, which is not too surprising. Preferences / recommendations vary. That said, Busker Guitars - who set up many resos for a wide variety of people - tend to go for around 3mm at the 12th fret on the bass side and 2.5mm on the treble. Some others prefer a slightly lower or higher action, some seem to prefer to have the action a tad higher on the treble side than the bass... If, when you measure it, your action is already somewhere close to this you might want to see if more practice adjusts you, as it were, before seeking to adjust the instrument. If it is way lower, the Busker default setting might be a good 'base camp' to explore from. As TT suggested, you might find that slightly heavier strings help - 13-56 might sound like they'd be too heavy for your taste (and fingers), but not all brands have the same tension (round core strings like Newtone MM Nationals come up to pitch at a lower tension than the hex core strings in equivalent gauges). On a different trajectory, it is perfectly possible to play slide on lighter strings - you just have to practice being light of touch, which can be a good thing... Unless your current setup is giving you loads of grief, I don't imagine it will hold you back too much. Thanks bod, Thanks for the info on Busker guitars, I'll measure mine and see where it's at. You're probably right, practicing to have a light touch probably is a good thing... |
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Post by resolive on Apr 6, 2014 23:22:10 GMT
Hi resolive, Busker Guitars - who set up many resos for a wide variety of people - tend to go for around 3mm at the 12th fret on the bass side and 2.5mm on the treble. Yeah, I've got about 2.4 mm across the board (from top of fret to bottom of string), except for the G string which is weirdly a little below at about 2 mm. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2014 2:35:39 GMT
Hi again
Sorry about that - I assumed you were learning from this "...it'll take me longer to learn...".
Republics have a reputation for being good guitars but not set up well at point of sale. If the previous owner never had it set up either, it might be pretty much as it was from the factory.
I think you are in USA? If so those RH boys might be able to put you right on someone local to set it all as you want it.
TT
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Post by washboardchris on Apr 7, 2014 7:00:45 GMT
Hi, as to break angle, you will find that if you have too much you will choke the cone and the tone and volume will suffer.
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Post by resolive on Apr 7, 2014 22:36:30 GMT
Hi again Sorry about that - I assumed you were learning from this "...it'll take me longer to learn...". Republics have a reputation for being good guitars but not set up well at point of sale. If the previous owner never had it set up either, it might be pretty much as it was from the factory. I think you are in USA? If so those RH boys might be able to put you right on someone local to set it all as you want it. TT No problem! Yup, I'm in MD. There's a local store nearby called "Appalachian Bluegrass Shoppe", the folks there set it up for me. I'm really thinking of just getting a new biscuit (and cover plate while I'm at it) and eventually try my hand at my own setup. Probably not now, Frank from Republic Guitars said he'd get some cover plates in a couple of months. I'll do it then. But it seems like it'd be ideal, this way I can work my way down the action until I find something comfortable for me. That's something a shop can't do for you really so to me it's important to learn how to set it up myself... |
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bluebop
Serious MM Forum Member
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Post by bluebop on Apr 9, 2014 1:05:06 GMT
Me and my o'l man 'sorted' out the action on my Republic. Or should I say he did... I won't regurgitate something I don't really know. Lot's of very helpful info in the link below, michaelmesser.proboards.com/thread/6778/lowering-action-on-republicWARNING: Below goes a little off topic. It was a very high action that I am pretty sure was set up for slide. I got a couple of national biscuits and just compared it to the original biscuit. It would be out of tune when fretting... Took off more than what was needed but the slide i'm using at the moment is very forgiving. A bottle neck would maybe struggle. The nut is still high but I still want to play slide so I just use a capo on first fret if I need to make it easier. The break angle is very shallow and it may have lost a little volume. Having said that I have also changed fingerpicks. It's interesting because I have changed my playing technique, slide, strings and fingerpicks. Comparing the sound of the different biscuits is nigh on impossible. My action was HIGH, string muting was more challenging and I tended to rest my hand on the cover plate. I was able to put a lot of 'energy' into my picking. Too much probably, no control of the full dynamic range. I was slightly nervous that I may have damaged the cone. Now that the strings are lower I am much more aware about the overall instrument. I immediately noticed that I was hitting the body much more with the picks and had to be more aware and less aggressive. But because I now find muting easier with the right hand, I am learning a lot more about the intricate nature of it all. MM's Newtone strings are amazing. I was using Medium Martins for the 'Bass' end and 22/24 unwound third, 18 and 16. Couldn't tune up to higher than Eb. These had a lot of tension which may also explain the possible change in volume and numerous other things. I now have PB MM mediums tuned up to open E/A and I think the strings have probably helped more than anything. Amazed really. The wound strings sound much, much better. It's difficult to describe but I guess/think the lesser tension gives the player a greater choice of sound in the right hand picking area. E.G. Snappy fast attack, longer sustain at bridge. Softer next to the fretboard and a whole lot more between. I'm going to get nickel next time. Really excited. A BIG thank you to everyone for sharing the information it made it so much easier. Peace. |
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Post by Nickel on Apr 9, 2014 7:13:50 GMT
"I'm going to get nickel next time. Really excited".
Should I be worried?
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Ouch. I changed the strings to ease the pain, at the time I wasn't interested at all in playing slide, only fingerpicking, and I had it setup with a lower action. I love that thing! I got Mark Hanson's Travis picking first book and had a blast with it. Then I ordered #2, and being in the mood to try new stuff I bought an instruction book from Bob Brozman. I had tried slide before, for about 20 minutes (!), and never really wanted to bother with it but I gave it another try when I got the book and am really enjoying it so I want to develop it. Problem is now my action feels a little bit on the low side. I'm concerned that it'll take me longer to learn if my setup isn't quite right (and let's face it I'm not getting any younger so why waste time!) so I'm thinking of giving it a good tweak so that it'll work for both fingerpicking and slide.
(I had some John Pearse 600L before that but I don't know if he put the same thing on, and with the lower action it's hard to compare). I was initially thinking that maybe I could try to cut two slots for each string in the saddle, one for fingerpicking and a higher one for slide, but it's probably a wacky idea, so I'll probably just get a new biscuit and try my hand at cutting it (maybe I'll get two! :-D) and reach a good compromise for both slide and fingerpicking. I'm just wondering if people have any advice on how to do it. I have to remove strings, cover plate and cone to access the bridge screw, right? Be very careful not to load the cone unevenly... I've read all the instructions on littlebluesbrother.com... is there a 'universal' action setting for slide and fingerpicking?
, even beginners have the right to mess with their gear...). I think you're right though, I probably got the hand strength to up the string gauge by now (the other day I messed with my strat which is strung with 9-42s and the strings felt like spaghettis!), that might be enough. But I've read somewhere that a greater break angle on the saddle improves the response of the cone).