Bakelite neck. Bad or really bad ?

[davey]

The little devil that sits on my left hand shoulder is telling me to buy this:

www.wunjoguitars.com/shop/resonators/national-triolian-palm-trees-1930

Would I be entirely bonkers ??

[Michael Messer]

Hi Davey,

Bakelite neck Triolians are wonderful sounding guitars. The density of the neck gives an amazing amount of bass, sustain and all-round tone. I owned one in the early 90s which had a bow in it. It sounded absolutely incredible, but it had a bowed neck that made it unplayable as a round-neck guitar, so I had a replica wood neck built to replace it and a few weeks later I sold the guitar because it had lost its wonderfulness.

If the guitar you are looking at has a straight neck, then I would say it's a great buy, but if not, leave it alone. The only way to find out is to go and see it, I would not trust any dealer's words on the state of that neck.

Looking at the photos, what concerns me are the exposed screws in the fretboard. That usually means that someone has had that neck off for some reason. Why they haven't replaced the dots is anyone's guess.

Bakelite is nasty stuff to work with, so any ideas of planing the fretboard to make it straight are not feasible, because nobody will take it on. I once drilled a hole in a bakelite Rickenbacher to fit a strap button and I could not believe how much nasty toxic brown dust and smoke from the burning bakelite came from one tiny drill-hole. It was really nasty!

I hope I have been helpful. My short answer is > You would not be at all bonkers to buy this guitar if the neck is straight.

Best wishes,

Shine On
Michael

[gordon]

I think I played this one last time I was in London and it sounded good, great even.
Michael has the voice of reason here, I don't know anything about bakelite necks.
I seem to remember the action was pretty high though, but the best idea is definitely to check it out for yourself.

[davey]

I think those exposed screws are telling me not to bother, someone's been fiddling for some reason. I'll wait for another to come along.

Thanks, Michael & Gordon.

[Deleted]

MM - don't read this...
I believe bakelite is asbestos containing material. But you could only get harmful exposure if you drilled into it.
TT

[Michael Messer]

Hi TT,

I know now that it is very toxic and carciogenic, but I didn't know that when I drilled into it. You know, when I was a child I played with a chemistry set, as did many people of my age, and included in the set was an asbestos mat which used to shed bits of thread all over the place. Also, in our kitchen we had an asbestos kettle mat which also shed bits of itself. I guess smoking and eating processed foods for many years that were full of all kinds of chemicals and insecticides was also a bit risky too. Now I live on organic spinach and don't play bakelite guitars. Hopefully I got away with it.

Shine On
Michael

[resonatorman]

Here's an additional information to what Michael said.
These necks tend to crack at the first of 2 screwholes, where the neckstick is attached (that's where the pull is greatest), even if the bow isn't too bad, see pics. This cannot be mended with reasonable expenditure.

[Keith Ambridge]

I drilled a 25mm dia hole in a bakelite block for someone only the other day, It stank the workshop out for the rest of the week!
Also we had an asbestos oven for heating and bending perspex at a sign firm i used to work at, we used to heat our meat pies up in it at lunchtime!

[Colin McCubbin]

Feb 16, 2014 18:22:33 GMT resonatorman said:

Here's an additional information to what Michael said.
These necks tend to crack at the first of 2 screwholes, where the neckstick is attached (that's where the pull is greatest), even if the bow isn't too bad, see pics. This cannot be mended with reasonable expenditure.

(As far as I am aware there is NO asbestos used in any bakelite formulations, of any vintage, but yes, it stinks when heated/drilled etc!).

There are quite a few pictures on my bakelite neck page at notecannons.com Scroll down to the link.

Also, pictures of a repaired neck at: www.jedrzejkubiak.com/bakelitenecktriolian/

More on the history of Bakelite can be found at Wikipedia, here.

And, on the original poster's question, I suspect from the 4 screws that the neck stick join has at some time broken, without taking it apart I would be concerned about the quality of the repair. And as Michael says, if you can live with a high action they play really well, (or fit a riser and play it lap style)!

Bonkers...? No ;-) Gambler...? Yes ;-)

[Matt]

I have played that guitar more than once. The neck is bowed and the action is high at the 12th fret. Also, I believe that the cone didn't have any ridges stamped into it, which might indicate that it's not original? In fact, my personal feeling is that the description on the website is either written by someone who's never seen a decent National, or is treading a fine line between exaggeration and dishonesty.

My overall impression of it was that it had a beautifully preserved body, and would make a nice wall-hanger, but as a player it's not even a particularly good guitar, let alone a good national. It's been there asking for £3k for years, they're only discounting it because no one who picks it up would pay the asking price, and I personally wouldn't part with the sale price for it either. Your opinion may differ/mileage may vary.

[davey]

Thanks for all the replies, folks. I've looked at all the relevant info on Notecannons as well, thank you.

I was interested in the Guitar because of the originality but I don't need an expensive ornament. Let me know if any of you spot a nice one with an original wooden neck.

Cheers, Davey

[washboardchris]

Hi, have sent you a PM. All the best Chris

[jreading]

I'n not an expert by any means on vintage Nationals so won't comment with regard to that.
But has any else noticed that Wunjo's have been a bit naughty by stating that 'National' are again making this same guitar in the modern factory?
No they are not...National Reso-Phonic may well indeed be making the same guitar in their modern factory however, as we all know and has been stated on this very forum two very different company's!

[resonatorman]

Right...and they are not even close to making the same guitar. E.G. nobody can make a 2-piece-body today...

[Matt]

I've only played 2 or 3 NRPs in shops, but none have come close to Vintage ones. They're not bad, and they certainly have their place in the market, but they're not Nationals.