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Post by gaucho on May 23, 2013 12:01:56 GMT
I have a '32 Duolian that has all original parts except for a Hot Rod cone and biscuit. It sounds and plays fantastic! Yesterday, I had the chance to play it in a side by side comparison (me playing both) with a '32 Duolian with an original cone and biscuit. The only differences were the cones and that mine has an unribbed cover plate vs the ribbed one on the other and that one also has about 70% of it's Duco intact (mine is bare metal). I loved the tone of the original cone, it sounded completely different, especially on the top end. Had that Banjo-like quality (I know that's a hated term, but it's the only way I can describe it!). I have 2 vintage cones that came out of old instruments and were damaged but can probably be massaged into reasonable shape. One is out of a '31 Style 0 and is the hand trimmed edge type and the other came from a '34 Trojan and is the rolled edge type. I really want to try them in my Duolian to see if I can get close to the tone of the one I played yesterday. Mine sounds really good now and the playability woks for me. I've opened up and worked on plenty of resos in the past, but I'm hesitant to open up this one since it has no problems. I'm really conflicted, but I like the idea of a original come and biscuit in this instrument. The other thing is, there was a 3rd '32 Duolian there as well. It also had it's original cone and biscuit, but had a replacement Maple neck. It sounded OK but I'd easily put mine ahead of this one in tone. What should I do? Here's my Duo and my Style 0 (the one the hand trimmed cone came out of).  |
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Post by triconehead on May 23, 2013 12:26:37 GMT
What a NICE dilemma  As I have stated earlier I´m new in Nationals, so forgive me if I´m out of line here, but from my experience of guitars in general it´s usually not just one part that sets them apart. And that particular cone vs the other one - would they sound similar in the same body? Best luck ! |
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Post by Michael Messer on May 23, 2013 12:28:49 GMT
Hi Gaucho,
I would have to try the old cones. You know what you are doing and although it may unsettle things for a short time, you are not going to be able to sleep until you have satisfied your curiosity!
Do the tests over a few days - leave each cone in and play it for a few days before trying the next. Record the results so you don't fool yourself. Start by recording the current hot rod cone.
Let me know which one is the best.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by gaucho on May 23, 2013 19:41:42 GMT
Michael, Thanks for the reply. That's EXACTLY what I was thinking! I'll try the rolled edge one first since it' a little more period correct. I had the same thoughts with my Style 0 and went back and fourth a couple times. I love the high end the vintage cones get but generally prefer the bass out of a Hot Rod....
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Post by snakehips on May 23, 2013 20:45:12 GMT
Hi Gaucho !
Funny, I prefer the bass string sound from a real vintage National cone - there is so much characteristic growl from them that no one has matched.
The HotRod cones come 2nd best though.
Treble, well, still probably prefer a vintage cone, but it's a closer match with the Hot Rod cones than for the bass.
The non-Hot -Rod cones had more sustain I think but felt considerably stiffer than vintage and HotRod cones
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Post by gaucho on May 24, 2013 17:42:27 GMT
Swapped in the rolled edge cone out of a '34 Trojan today. Very different sounding. Definitely a vintage tone but I think it's gone too far. Very Banjo-like across the range with a punchy, short sustain. Too short I think. It was the same in the Trojan and it's why we swapped it out for a hot rod, but the Trojan had other problems and I thought there was a chance it might be OK. I'm going to leave it in for awhile and see if it beds in any, but I think it's not close enough to what I'm looking for to ever get there. I'll try the hand cut one out of my Style 0 next...
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Post by pascal on May 24, 2013 19:13:17 GMT
Nothing can be worthy than a genuine National cone, even from a Trojan one (I had two from 1934/36). The rest is only reproduction. (of what else ?)
Banjo like? Is Son House having a banjo-like sound even in the 60' with so many tired, out of services style O and Duolians?
Sorry I do belong to the 1st generation of National users. Never played a "Republic" "Hot rod" or so...
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Post by gaucho on May 24, 2013 20:57:43 GMT
That Trojan cone definitely was toast. It sounded like a banjo across all the strings and had very little sustain or volume. The older National cone out of the Style 0 is in there now and it sounds exactly like I wanted! Subtle banjo-like twang on the top two strings but plenty of bass on the bottom. Volume and sustain has returned as well. definite vintage tone compared to the NRP Hot Rod I took out. Dealing with some buzzing, but that's to be expected and I'm sure I'll be able to sort it out.
Pascal, I don't quite understand your reply. I know "Banjo-like" is a hated descriptor, but I don't know how else to describe it.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2013 7:25:44 GMT
I agree with your thinking, Chris.
I've swapped a few cones around, ranging from a 30's 8 lug (which I sold because it has so little bass), to a 80's 'OMI' cone (which had too much bass in one guitar, but is fine in another), ane even a fender fr50 cone, which sounds great in my brass DM33H (better than the 'OMI' cone). You gotta do what you gotta do.
TT
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