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Post by myk on Mar 15, 2013 13:05:55 GMT
Hi all
I have seen on a few sites now, shock and horror comments at the mention/discovery of cones being glued in position. I accept that that is not how they were built originally but what does the glue do that is so bad? Obviously there are lots of different glues and I can see how a bead of silicon around the base of a cone could take the edge off the sound, I do not see how a couple of spots of superglue would have any adverse effect, quite the opposite if it helps stops anything moving during a re-build.
So whats the real story behind glue and cones?
Mike
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 15, 2013 13:20:17 GMT
One thing I can think of is that the cone will be damaged if you need to remove it ( to move a post or tighten the biscuit scew)
PT
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Post by myk on Mar 15, 2013 13:36:42 GMT
Super glue is water soluble so should come out easy enough.
Mike
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Post by Keith Ambridge on Mar 15, 2013 13:47:32 GMT
It would just be pointless glueing it in. If yopu were doing a re build you'd be removing the cone anyway.
Also I imagine you would mute the cone slightly if you anchored its edges down.
Keith.
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2013 13:54:05 GMT
Hi Myk,
Cones should NEVER be glued in. The sound is impaired because the glue stops the cone from vibrating as they should. It kills the tone. There is a noticeable loss of highs, lows, harmonics, overtones and in some cases....volume.
Over the years I have seen all kinds of ways of glueing cones in, and I can promise you that none of them are any good. I have seen beads of silicone, beads of glue, spots of Supeglue, nails, screws, and all combinations of that lot, and none of them are any good.
The better the cone, the more harm it will do to the tone.
I hope that answers your question.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by myk on Mar 15, 2013 13:56:32 GMT
That's just my point, imagine it would mute the cone? Why would it do that. The cone is pressed down hard by the strings how would a little bit of glue mute it?
I just want to know if there is a good scientific reason for not putting glue on the cones rather than myth and magic which is what it seems to be at the moment.
Mike
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Post by myk on Mar 15, 2013 13:57:51 GMT
Michael
Thank you. Thats what I wanted the words of experience.
Mike
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Post by Keith Ambridge on Mar 15, 2013 14:07:12 GMT
That's just my point, imagine it would mute the cone? Why would it do that. The cone is pressed down hard by the strings how would a little bit of glue mute it? I just want to know if there is a good scientific reason for not putting glue on the cones rather than myth and magic which is what it seems to be at the moment. Mike Surely the whole cone vibrates when energised by a plucked string, and if you glue the edges down you stop or mute some of that vibration. Keith. |
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2013 15:29:36 GMT
Keith is correct, the glue stops the cones vibrating and it can dramatically affect its resonance. There is no myth or magic behind the reasoning, it just kills the tone.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by pete1951 on Mar 15, 2013 17:07:31 GMT
Super glue is water soluble so should come out easy enough. Mike Also MORE soluble is the glue used on Dobro/wooden National cone wells etc. Rust may also be something a long soak could cause |
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karlos
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 25
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Post by karlos on Mar 15, 2013 17:15:10 GMT
Hey guys,
have you seen that?
Karlos
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Post by gaucho on Mar 15, 2013 18:20:45 GMT
On top of all the points above, some folks like to move the cone around a bit to adjust intonation.
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Post by Michael Messer on Mar 15, 2013 18:36:33 GMT
....and that too.
The point is that glueing cones into guitars, whichever way you try and justify it, is sacrilege!
Shine On
Michael
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Post by andys on Mar 15, 2013 21:56:08 GMT
Why even glue them in, it just doesn't make sense to me at all.
The downward pressure of a set of even 11s or 12s strings is enough to hold down a decent cone.
If glueing down cones is acceptable, why not glue down the bridges of archtop guitars? Why don't instruments in the violin family have glued down bridges?
As bad as glue, is situations where cones are SCREWED down into the sound-well, as I have come across this as well.
I think we should start a thread about horror stories we have found with resonator guitars, as far as glue and screws and cones are concerned
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Post by bluesdude on Mar 16, 2013 0:45:26 GMT
Now a felt lined shelf!!!thats a whole other matter!LOL
Kenny,
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