Microphone question

[roger]

I have just bought myself a nice shiny new acoustic guitar and I would like to occasionally amplify it, but do not want to fit a pickup. Is the best microphone to use the Shure SM57, or is there something more suited to acoustic guitars that I should spend my Birthday money on.
Thanks for any advice given.

Kind Regards Roger

[tark]

Hi Roger,

If you want a tough and industry standard mic that will stand up to gigging and doesn't require a power supply then the SM57 is an excellent choice.

If you want something that's a bit more refined, that will serve well for home recording, then go for something like a Rode NT1, a Rode NT5 or even one of the cheaper capacitor mics from the SE range. With these mics you will need a small mixer or even an acoustic amplifier that can provide phantom power (48V odd, connected in such a way that it can supply the mic down a three conductor balanced mic cable at the same time as the cable is conducting the audio signal).

[blueshome]

SM57 is good - MM swears by his.

I've used an AKG C1000 condenser for years with great success on both my reso and wood guitars - you can use a battery also if phantom power not available. Captures a bit bigger range of sound than the SM57 but not too prone to feeding back like some condensers. I

've heard the small diaphragm Rodes used and was not too impressed with them as performance mics.

[Michael Messer]

My personal preference as I often mention on this forum is a Shure SM57. I think it beats most mics hands down. SM57 mics for instruments & SM58 mics for vocals are pretty much the industry standards throughout the world. The problem with condenser mics (in my opinion) is that the player has less control over volume & tone than with a Shure SM57. This is because condenser mics level everything out. Mics on mobile phones, video cameras and many portable recording devices are condensers.

With a 57 you can set the EQ on the amp and do the rest with 'mic technique' ....move in to get more bass and volume, and use different parts of the guitar to get a selection of tones. With a condenser this does not happen.

These days I travel with my own 57 and no matter what mic they present me with, I stick with my 57. I know how to use one and control my sound with it. Just like a pick-up on an electric guitar.

....and.....they're only about 70 quid!

Shine On
Michael

[roger]

Thanks to all for the advice. I am sure I will go for the Shure, no pun intended, I want something that is nice and simple and easy to use.
I am assuming the Shure will plug straight into my acoustic amp input socket the same as if I was using an elecro-acoustic guitar? Please can you confirm this Michael.
Thanks once again for the help.

Kind regards Roger

[Michael Messer]

Hi Roger,

The 57 should be fine plugged into your amp. Perhaps you should check with the amp manual first - as long as your input is LOW impedance it will be fine.

There is a upgraded SM57 called a Shure Beta 57A - I don't like it as much as the basic 57. The 57 is an amazing workhorse that has been an industry standard on stages & in studios for decades.

Shine On
Michael

[roger]

Thanks for the quick responce Michael, I hope you do not mind if I pick your brains a little more. I have a Roland AC60 amp it states in the manual that the guitar channel has a -10 dbu and the MIC/LINE Channel is -50 /-10dbu whatever that means. I want to plug the shure M57 into the guitar channel -10 dbu and still use the mike channel for singing or in my case croaking. Will it be OK to do this. I am afraid my knowledge of electronics is rubish, the trouble is they do not make amps with gears and chains.
Thanks in advance again.

Kind Regards Roger

[Michael Messer]

Hi Roger,

I just looked at the amp's spec and it say 2 inputs...mic and mic/line. It probably is okay, but just to be sure, you should contact Roland or a good dealer and ask about plugging a mic into the mic/line input. Roland is a good company and their customer service dept is very helpful. They will probably recommend a Roland microphone, but that's their job.

There may be a forum member who can give you a better answer than I can.

Let me know how you get on and what the outcome is.

Shine On
Michael

[roger]

Thanks for all your help Michael, I have contacted Roland and they do not recommend that you plug a microphone into the guitar input. They say it will be fine in the mic input but the guitar one is specific for either magnetic or piezo pickups and not directional microphones. They said it will not do any harm but the quality will not be that good. So it looks like I may have to use one of the removable pickups, I have heard the Seymour Duncan woody is quite good or perhaps invest in a small PA unit and the Shure M57 which I still think I would prefer. Thats unless anyone else Knows better.
Thanks again Michael for taking the time to help.

Kind Regards Roger

[Michael Messer]

Hi Roger,

Just a quick reply;

Go for a cheap PA system. It will be much better than an acoustic guitar amp. More inputs....more flexibility....more spread of sound with 2 speakers....etc. There are some very good small portable systems around these days.

Shine On,
Michael.

[tark]

Yikes Michael I'm amazed by your comments about capacitor mics.
I must be totally misunderstanding what you are saying.

It almost sounds to me that you may be drawing comparisons between a cardioid mic (which the SM57 is) and a omni-directional mic (omni capacitor mics were once very common, although you can now get them with various fixed or variable pickup patterns).
Most capacitor mics will handle a wide dynamic range and they certainly do not compress the sound in any way.

The SM57 has a bass roll off that starts at around 200Hz (quite a way above the bottom string fundamental) and it has quite a strong presence peak around 6KHz, so it has quite a strong sonic character of its own. Most capacitor mics have a much wider, flatter frequency response than an SM57 and more of a neutral or more subtle character.
The mics in cameras and phones that you mention are very cheap versions of capacitor mics, using electret materials with a built in charge. Cameras and phones always have compression or AGC circuits built in to amplify the mic signals and it's these that compress the sound in these devices.

Bob Brozman says that although he has used the SM57 he prefers small diaphragm Neumann hypercardioid capacitor mics.

[growler]

Michael just to add what you mentioned about a buying a cheap PA System , Dolphin Music are doing the Yamaha Stagepas 300 for as little as £ 289 now , going by the several reviews I have read of this system it really is value for money , it is ideal for a small duo , trio , takes minuets to set up , totally suitable for a small venue.
Going back to your preference to the PA system over amplifiers, I could not agree with you more. I play in a 4 piece band and also a duo, the problems we have have with the band are incredible because the bass player ( who incedentaly is the loudest ) insists on the band using their amplifiers as he hates PA systems. Sometimes the practices are a total mess, all you can hear is his thumping bass, with the drummer trying to play loud enough to hear himself over the bass player, and the other guitarist and myself just standing there refusing to push the volume up on our amps to reach their ear bursting level of noise.

Now the guitar duo is a totally different thing , the other guitarist has a really excellent PA system which we use, the guitars a just so clear , hardly any effects are used just a little delay and reverb. The vocals are so clear ,not like with the group where you have to absolutely scream into the mic to be heard, and finally the adjustment of the PA is just so quick to do .............. unlike the adjustment using amplifiers

Regards
Growler

[Michael Messer]

Tark, maybe I worded my comment slightly wrong. I am aware that cheap phone mics compress the signal, but I do find that capacitor mics do not give the same control as a cardioid mic does. While they do not compress the sound, they do give the impression that they do. I am not a technical person. I go by what I like. I have been playing on stages for many years and in that time I have used every type of mic available. I have never performed with any mic that works better than a Shure SM57. I have done many live recordings with the BBC and they really know their stuff. They have always mic'ed my guitar with a 57.

I have not heard Bob Brozman play live for fifteen or more years, but I can tell you that the sound he got out of house PA systems with an SM57 and two vintage National guitars was quite extraordinary and would be hard to imrove on.

By the way - YIKES is a great word. I haven't heard it for a long time. It made me laugh when I read your comment....YIKES Michael..... excellent!

Shine On,
Michael

[Michael Messer]

Growler - you need to get your bass player to play quieter. It is not meant to be a struggle, it is meant to be a pleasure. Perhaps you should record a rehearsal and play the recording to your bass player. Yamaha PAs a great value for money.

Shine On
Michael

[marshcat]

I'm with Michael on the dynamic vs. condenser mic issue. We played together for years in situations with up to 3 resonator guitars (+ piano +double bass), with all the guitars using dynamic mics, mostly SM57s, through the PA. No problems and a great sound.

A few years back I bought an AKG CS1000 condenser mic, but to my ears it sounded kind of harsh with a resonator guitar, so it doesn't get used very much now at all. I appreciate that this is a subjective thing. But if anyone wants an AKG CS 1000, let me know!

These days, though, I mostly use an AKG D202 dynamic mic, frequency response excellent at 20 - 20 kHz, and incorporating a neat bass roll-off thumbwheel for those occasional tricone grille/bass-heavy or 50 Hz mains hum situations. It has two capsules, with the bass capsule located near the 'XLR' end, so you can get up real close to the cone if you need to. Which is also great for Gordon Brown, who uses a later version, the D222, in the House of Commons...

Marshcat
www.lemonrock.co.uk/deltaechoes