Shaftesbury Del Vechio Copy

[andys]

Thought forum members might be interested in this guitar that a close friend of mine owns and I have set up for him with a lower action and a new set of strings

A Shaftesbury resonator.


Not the loudest resonator I have ever played, but a nice take on things IMO

Smells lovely too, a distinct odour of furniture polish on old timber.

I'd welcome any more info on this ons, if anyone knows

[Deleted]

Looks good to me. I know that my quietest reso has the most growl, so maybe its as good as chet atkins' 'real one' sounded.
Also, my resprayed national still smells of thinners (super!) but my recent stripped metal dobro still stinks of nitromors (vomo!).
TT

[Michael Messer]

Shaftesbury was an own brand name for products produced for the London based retailer and distributor, Rose Morris, whose shop was on Shaftesbury Avenue in W1. Rose Morris has been at the centre of the British musical instrument retailing world for a hundred years, starting out as drum manufacturers and retailers, then going into distributing their drums around the UK, and in the 1960s they started their 'Shaftesbury' brand and sourced instruments, including drums, guitars and amplifiers, from the UK and the rest of the world to brand as 'Shaftesbury' products and sell into British musical instrument shops.

The very first amplifier that came into my house when I was a child was a 'Shaftesbury' amplifier that I knew as a 'Shaftesbury 66' (but I have seen as a Shaftesbury Dallas 519) accompanied by a red Watkins Rapier. Sid Watkins and his merry men built Watkins guitars and WEM (Watkins Electronic Music) amplifiers, and John Dallas (also a London manufacturer) built Dallas, Shaftsebury and Rangemaster amplifiers. This company later became 'Dallas-Arbiter' and then 'Sound City'. All three companies are very closely connected to Rose Morris and all at various times have been based in Shaftesbury Avenue. Both WEM and Dallas produced Shaftesbury amplifiers and Dallas, as Dallas-Arbiter, became big manufacturers in Japan with Shaftesbury as one of their brands.

I have wandered a bit here, but it does all relate to the Shaftesbury Del Vecchio copy, because as with other Shaftsebury products that were actually built by the leading manufacturers, I am not certain and there are differences of opinion, but........some people think that Shaftesbury Del Vecchios were built in Japan and others think they were built either by Del Vecchio in Brazil, or with Del Vecchio components in Japan. The sound quality of Shaftesbury Del Vecchios is not as good as the real thing, but they are very good copies. I think they first appeared in 1970/71 and continued through the 70s.

Why Rose Morris/Shaftesbury decided to copy a Del Vecchio resonator guitar has always puzzled me! I think it is possibly due to them not being able to get Dobro components to build a Shaftesbury guitar, but that is just a guess.

As well as Japanese manufacturers, Rose Morris were working with some of the best UK manufacturers to produce Shaftesbury products, so it is quite possible that they dealt direct with Del Vecchio to produce these guitars.

I haven't really said much about the Shaftesbury Del Vecchio, but the whole subject of Rose Morris, Watkins and other UK brands is very interesting.

Shine On
Michael.

[Mark Makin]

Hello Michael
The Shaftesbury Dobro that I had "back then" had a made in Japan gold sticker on it. They were branded as "Conrads" in the USA.

[Deleted]

I've had two of these through my workshop, cosmetically similar, but structurally way different. The first one I had came to me with a completely collapsed cone (the previous owner had actually nailed a block of wood under the biscuit to try and prevent it "going" altogether, and had punched a series of holes thru' the cone, presumably to try and open up the sound. Anyway, National spun me a new cone (they are slightly different in diameter and height to a stock National cone). It still didn't sound particularly loud, but it played OK and looked pretty - someone had already added a magentic pickup and it wasnt too bad at all.

The second came to me from a friend who wanted to see if I could do anything to improve it....he said it was always a bit "polite" for a resonator. If I recall, it had a regular Dobro type coverplate..and the cone really was like the hubcap off a 1960's Vauxhaul Cresta..no soundhole, it just sat on the lip of the opening like a pie dish. I had to make a soundwell for it and put in a new National type cone. Again, it turned out not to be the loudest of resos, but a definite improvement on how it came out of the factory.

I really like the look of them..very nicely figured wood, very much like the real delV, and that natty-looking wooden coverplate and fabric covered soundholes.

[Michael Messer]

Hi Mark,

I think the Shaftsebury Dobro came along after the Del Vecchio and I also think it may have become the JHS Dobro, but I am not sure. This one could be a bit of a tangled mess to unravel and we will probably never know the answers, but the components could well have been shipped to Japan. This is very early on in the whole concept of far eastern built copies of western guitars.

A phone call I think....

Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

....just to add to my previous comment; If the guitars were assembled in Japan using Del Vecchio parts shipped from Brazil, they are able to say 'Made in Japan'. I could do the same with MM guitars; import the components, assemble them here and label the guitars as 'Made in England'.

What actually did happen with Shaftesbury products in Japan at that time will probably never be known.

Shine On
Michael.

[Tymus]

I once owned a really beat up Shaftesbury 12 string with a bolt on neck, not a good looking guitar but it was the nicest twelve I’ve ever played. It fretted easily right up the neck and in tune too, it also sounded great, in fact I’ve heard few better! Unfortunately it got stolen about twenty years ago and I’m yet to find a replacement that matches up to it!

Tymus.

[marshcat]

Talking about cheap and fast cover plate fixings (hook-on, etc.) which should never have seen the light of day, the Shaftesbury had the most low-tech solution I've ever seen. The wooden cover plate is held on by a length of curtain wire which acts as a spring and pushes against the round black wooden lip surrounding the cover plate.

If any Shaftesbury owners are interested, I have a large supply of genuine original 1970s net curtain wire available as spares. ;D

And as I remarked in an earlier thread on Shaftesburys, I preferred the dog...

[Deleted]

Thanks to AndyS for posting this and thanks to all who have contributed. It fascinating to hear the story. I bought this Shaftesbury from a second-hand shop next to Camden Market in 1981. Around 10 years ago Dave King replaced the innards which had collapsed.(You can see the biscuit is different to the one in marshcat's photo). It's served me well for 30 years- I am strictly strum, can't play slide for toffee,and the slim neck and old-style radius is perfect for this. Really looking forward to picking it up but have been keeping myself very busy with my recently purchased Sollophonic which is the most addictive guitar I have ever purchased. Lovely job Andy!!!

[bananafist]

Not adding much to the knowledge, but I remember seeing these in Rose Morris window in Shaftesbury Ave in the 70s. I used to fancy one, back in the day, but lack of cash, and the suspicion that they might not sound very good, stopped me.
Ronnie Lane played one often with his circus-type touring band, slim chance, he said he really liked the neck. I think, from photos I've seen, he had the cone/cover replaced with a circular piece of wood and had a pickup fitted.
Recently Doyle Dykes apparently found one in the North of England, and took it back to the USA very chuffed with it.
My special field is trivia!

[elvis1967]

I know this thread is old but my local guitar emporium have one of these that I've had my eye on a while. It's got the very high action of a lap steel. It started off on the wall for £425 and now it's down to £250. I'm not convinced it's worth that much but there don't seem to be many around.

If anyone has an opinion on the price I'd love to hear it.

Thanks.

[leeophonic]

Stuart it,s a bit of a dog, oh theres also a guitar in the picture!!!

Net curtain wire I used to sell by the yard as a boy in a shop that made open all hours look sophisticated, I even had my own coat like Arkwright!!!
Is anyone going to mention Chet Atkins, the reason these guitars are still talked about???
Lee

[Deleted]

l have a copy of a del vechio made by takamine for a few years the name on it is barcley kustom. l have had a real one but the body was two thin which made it a very quiet sounding reso. the one made by tak with some changes to it is more pronounced in the sound. its a small 14 fret neck and one nice thing it the frets are where they should be. l am from b.c canada and a retired luthier l built s few but prefered working on antique guitars the oldest is aprox 1802.

[amccj7]

Michael,,this is just off to the side of this discussion but being from Canada I wanted to Know is,,
"Shaftesbury Ave" is this the same Ave referenced in a Mark Knopfler,s song ? "Wild West End ?
Where he gets a pickup for his Steel Guitar? Thanks .