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Post by gaucho on Aug 14, 2011 16:07:51 GMT
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Post by Mark Makin on Aug 14, 2011 18:08:15 GMT
Hello Gaucho This seems to be an original 1931 National Style 0 body with a Variation 2 Hawaiian scene sandblast pattern. The serial number is probably correct. You are confusing other models of Nationals when you say the serial number has disappeared 'with the neck'. On these instruments, it should be stamped "S1731" in the end of the body below the tailpiece. The neck (which seems to be nicely made with an ebony fingerboard rather than the original dyed black maple) is a replacement. It is probable that the cone is original - certainly the black 'biscuit' bridge is original. I think it is called, as you suggest, a squareneck because that is the set up style required for 'hawaiian' or lap style playing. It is a perfectly normal round neck guitar with a high nut. The coverplate MAY be a replacement. It could be an original National coverplate but not from this period. The two do NOT go together. 'Chicken foot' coverplates do not normally appear before around 1935. It may have been replaced because, this guitar (from its serial number) probably had a 'hook-on' coverplate. This means it would have been attached by 8 small hooks and 'locked' by one final screw under the strings. These hooks are easily broken. Once broken they cannot be fixed. The only recourse is to drill new screw holes in the other 8 positions. If someone made a mess of this, the new plate may have been necessary - either in the 1930s or later. As you say, there is not much 'collectability' about this instrument but that should be reflected in the price. This could be very good value as an original sounding, nicely playing 'performance' rather than collector instrument. Best of luck with it.
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Post by gaucho on Aug 14, 2011 18:33:07 GMT
How hard would it be to set it up to play Spanish style? Just lowering the action or would the tuners need to be replaced. I'm not totally opposed to playing lapstyle either. Is there a way to tell if the cone is original with out taking it apart?
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Post by Mark Makin on Aug 14, 2011 18:40:57 GMT
The tuners need to be reversed and a new, lower nut fitted. There might be a need to reset the neck. It looks as though this neck was built with this nut to be used exclusively as a lap instrument. If it had been set up as a round neck - I would have expected a nut raiser to be used and not a custom fitted nut. You can't really tell if the cone is original without going in seriously. As I said, there is a strong possibility that the cone is original because it would have settled to a playable height through string pressure over the years and if it had to be replaced, a new one would be a different height and so would probably require a new biscuit as well - certainly replacements would come with a biscuit fitted to be recut to the desired action. If you do go inside( or have someone qualified to do so!) the original cone would certainly LOOK very old and dusty with spirals around it. A knowledgeable repair man should know the difference. The 'flanges' on the edges of originals are slightly different to moden replacements
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 15, 2011 10:23:47 GMT
Hi Gaucho,
I can't add anything to Mark's excellent comments about the guitar. As Mark said, if it is going for a good price, you can't go wrong.
Let us know how you get on
Shine On Michael.
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Post by gaucho on Aug 15, 2011 11:19:29 GMT
I don't see a truss rod in these photos. Shouldn't a new round neck have one?
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 15, 2011 11:38:02 GMT
Hi Gaucho,
Not necessarily, original Nationals didn't have truss rods and most of them are still perfectly playable. That aspect of it did not worry me at all, and if the neck does need some adjusting, that should be reflected in the price.
Buying this guitar via mail order does have a risk element to it, but as I said....that should be reflected in the price. This guitar is made up of parts from two, maybe three, possibly even four National guitars, and has a non-original neck that is set up for lap steel playing and for those reasons I really don't think the seller can expect a high price, or a price anywhere near what a vintage or new generation National would fetch. This guitar is worth a few hundred dollars.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by Tymus on Aug 15, 2011 18:36:55 GMT
Hi Gaucho,
I think it’s quite likely that it’s been fitted with a non adjustable truss rod, these are usually box or T section steel and sometimes hardwood, carbon fibre etc. If you hold a strong magnet against the fretboard you’ll be able feel the “pull” of a steel one.
Cheers Tymus.
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Post by leeophonic on Aug 15, 2011 19:40:13 GMT
The neck looks like it is a quite nicely done, using a mahogany grained one piece billet, it would be good to see if the neckstick follows through and well it is attached, anyway whats wrong with lapstyle broaden your horizons! Lee
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Post by gaucho on Aug 17, 2011 11:51:10 GMT
It's local and I'll go look at it tomorrow. I like lapstyle, plus the action and round neck look like it could be played spanish style (with no fretting) as well. It seems from the photos, that the action is not as high as a square neck. They are asking a bit much for it, so we'll see how it goes.
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Post by gaucho on Aug 18, 2011 20:04:10 GMT
Checked it out out today. The body looks super clean, almost like it's been polished. The sandblasted/etched scene is so faint, you really don't even see it unless you look hard. Can't really feel it either, it's pretty smooth The cone, from what I could see, had spirals, but it was pretty clean and shiny. Looks pretty new to me. The action is weird, not as high as a normal square neck, but not really fret-able either. And where it comes off the bridge, the strings are really close to the non-original coverplate. I don't think you could lower the action because of this. I could play it pretty well, spanish style (with-out any fretting). The round neck is really stout and fat feeling. I think if I was to buy it, I'd eventually want to send it to NRP and get a different neck installed, something more fitting to the style 0. Anyone know approx what that costs? I made an offer on it, but they didn't like it too much. I don't really feel like it's worht much more than I offered, so we shall see...
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Post by snakehips on Aug 18, 2011 21:24:21 GMT
Hi there !
Another way to tell if a guitar neck has a metal truss rod (hidden in a neck) is to take it to a guitar-friendly / guitar playing Dentist - to x-ray it. I've checked quite a few of my own guitars that way. None had cavities either ; )
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2011 21:31:02 GMT
or use a cheapo metal detector (like I've had for xmas a couple of times recently) - frets only sound different to frets and a rod. tt
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Post by gaucho on Aug 26, 2011 15:09:53 GMT
I picked it up yesterday for $650 US. Seems like a good price, even if it needs some work. As it is, it plays and sounds pretty good. The only issue for me it that the strings are really low (almost touching the cover plate right by the bridge). It seems like the break angle is pretty shallow as well. I like to play right on top of the bridge sometimes (to get that Fred McDowell kinda sound) and you can't really do that now. Plays fine further up the strings tho. There's plenty of room under the cover strap for the biscuit to be higher, but that would raise the action too much. The strings are very level all along the fret board, so I don't think the neck is lifted or warped, just not well set up. Any suggestions? Think it needs a neck re-set? I'll try to get a shot of the strings in front of the bridge and the break angle. I really love this thing!
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Post by gaucho on Aug 26, 2011 15:20:02 GMT
Here's a couple photos. Any rough ideas of what a neck reset costs and a good place on the east coast (Florida) of the US to have it done?
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