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Post by bod on Jun 24, 2011 21:27:00 GMT
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Post by julianm on Jun 29, 2011 18:16:30 GMT
Can anyone give me any guidance on these guitars? How are they to play?
Any info much appreciated.
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Post by julianm on Jun 29, 2011 18:27:23 GMT
Also, any idea what sort of price to expect to pay for one?
Thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2011 19:38:52 GMT
didn't meet reserve.
anyway, julian - not sure if you mean resonators (and if you specifically mean a 'dobro') or old nationals. decent budget resonator £350 upwards, old nationals £1000 upwards - generally a lot more. you may guess from this site that resonators are designed to play and sound 'great'.
TT
and yes jonnybees - i have gas - BAD!
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Post by julianm on Jun 29, 2011 22:32:21 GMT
Hi Deuce
Yes, I saw it didn't meet its reserve. I just wondered how much that particular model Dobro might reasonably cost and whether anyone here could give me any insight into how that one compares with a similar vintage National.
It certainly looks great in the pictures but was wondering about its tone, playability and so on.
Played a nice (much cheaper) Tanglewood today but from what people have been telling me so far budget models don't really compare with the real deal.
I'm just starting to investigate the resonator world so all help and advice is very much appreciated.
Cheers
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Post by bod on Jun 30, 2011 6:57:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2011 7:03:19 GMT
I'm no expert - I probably don't know too much more than you! So for a laugh I'm guessing the dobro should sell for £4500 'cos it looks rare. I do know though that on a scale 1-10, tanglewood would be around 0 and the dobro around 11.
TT
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Post by slidenpickit on Jun 30, 2011 7:50:57 GMT
Hi Julianm,
I've read about the M-62 and apparently it was commonly referred to as 'all show and no go'.
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Post by tark on Jul 2, 2011 10:05:54 GMT
As I understand it apart from the normal variation between one guitar and another and the issue with old guitars that they may be damaged or not properly set up, asking about the sound of Dobro guitars is a bit of a complicated question. Like National guitars they were made with brass or wood bodies, the majority of Dobros were wood. However they also made some bodies of Aluminium which some people say sound terrible. I'm not sure but I don't think they made any steel bodies. The 'more show than go' comment that I have seen applied to the M62 seems to be because it was a nickel plated brass body with sand blasted decoration rather than the more usual wood, so the comment may not be that helpful.
Another difference is that compared to Nationals, Dobro's have larger cones. Most of them have a spider bridge set up with a 'folded' cone that points mostly downward. However some of them do have a simpler outward pointing cone with a biscuit bridge, and I believe some of them can even accept either type of cone. Some Dobros even had pressed rather than spun cones. Given the possible combination of three different body materials and two cone types (also the pressed or spun variation), the 'sound' of a Dobro can vary quite a bit.
The most familiar Dobro 'sound' is probably the dry slightly nasal sound of the wood body, square neck, spider bridge style most used in country music.
As to playing feel I don't know but I'd guess for the round necks a lot like a National if properly set up. Of course, again, the model most associated with the Dobro name is the lap style square neck.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2011 10:38:21 GMT
From what I can tell, Chris W has researched fiddle edges extensively - I think the comment is still a valid one. I've never played one though - so I'm on the fence.
TT
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Post by Michael Messer on Jul 2, 2011 11:18:43 GMT
  Fiddle-edge metal-bodied Dobros were made of steel, brass, German Silver and aluminium. They are wonderful sounding guitars that are closer to a Tricone in their tonal character than to a wood-bodied Dobro and back in the 30s they were very popular. Fiddle-edge Dobros are one of the resophonic guitar world's secret weapons. Absolutely superb guitars that due to their rarity and I guess partisan opinions of the 'Dobro' branding, have never really been given the respect or place they deserve in the resophonic guitar world. I have played many fiddle-edge Dobros over the years and I have never played a bad one. They are not as loud and do not have the attack of a single cone National, but they have a wonderful tone that as I have already said, is closer to a Tricone than to a Dobro. The most well known musicians I can think of who have recorded and performed blues with these guitars are Sam Mitchell, Taj Mahal and Graham Hine.  My first 1930s resophonic guitar was a fiddle-edge Dobro. Inspired by hearing Sam Mitchell & Taj Mahal, it was this model that I wanted more than anything else in the world. My turn-on to National guitars came later.  The aluminium model, the 'Dobro-lite' is quieter than the steel, German Silver and brass models, but it has one of the sweetest tones that you will ever hear. I guess the most well known player of a Dobro-lite is Göran Wennerbrandt, who used to tour and record with Eric Bibb. The fiddle-edge Dobro was an amazing innovation in the development of resophonic guitars; it does not require solder to put the body together (which was causing all sorts of problems at National with bodies not holding together), and with two soundwells like tiers in an arena, it is capable of being a Dobro with a 10.5 inch spider-bridge resonator, or a National with a 9.5 inch biscuit-bridge resonator. Due to the beautiful tone of the 10.5 inch spider-bridge cone in these guitars, nobody ever replaces them with 9.5 inch biscuit-bridge cones. Shine On Michael. |
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Post by Mark Makin on Jul 2, 2011 14:59:29 GMT
I personally would never start to make a comparison between METAL Dobros and METAL Nationals. They are chalk and cheese - as Michael says, sweet, more Tricone sounding, but definitely quieter than a National - no bad thing in my book!
I don't think the yardstick of a resonator guitar is how loud it is.
Just to clarify what was made here:
M32 - painted steel
M35 - painted steel, bindings etc.
M46 - Lumalite - sunburst or tiger stripe painted aluminium, some gold and silver sunburst (1935)
M47 - Lumalite - later model (1938)
M62 - Nickeled Brass - Spanish Dancer (two distinctly different pattern versions)
M65 - Nickeled Brass - 'Serenader' - different sandblasted design
M14S - Nickeled German silver - 'Leader' model. Variously branded as a Dobro, Old Kraftsman, Ward or Alhambra guitars.
M15S - Nickeled German Silver - 'Professional' model.
M16S - Nickeled German Silver - 'Artist' model.
All of these guitars were made by both Dobro or Regal. AFter 1936, Regal made ALL of them. They can occur with 5 piece 'f' holes or 'gunsights'.
The M14, 15 and 16 made by Dobro have completely different engraved patterns on them to the Regal made set of the same instruments.
Most of the fiddle edges were made with Coverplates with 3 rings of holes in the fan patterns whereas all wood bodied Dobros had twin rings of holes. Some fiddle edges were fitted with the groups of 8 hole window plates - the so-called 'UFO' plates (see the pictures of the cowboy and Sam Mitchell in Michaels post immediately above). These do not occur on any other instruments except for a few rogue - Regal-type cheaper wood Dobros.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jul 3, 2011 12:10:35 GMT
 Shine On, Michael Attachments:
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Post by rbe on Jul 3, 2011 16:14:59 GMT
Well stated Michael and Mark. My only question is that I thought the M14 was plated brass?
Tark, you made several comments that I would like to address. All of the unaltered fiddle-edges I have seen had the stamped lugged cones. I have mostly seen steel and aluminum examples, so I can't speak for the plated brass or german silver variations. I was told that the spun cones are a different size and don't clear the neck stick properly. I have also never heard of a vintage (1930s) Dobro having an original biscut cone. Although fiddle-edges could be fitted with one, I'm not sure it was how they were originally outfitted. But we are talking about Dobro/National, where no absolute rules apply. The lugged cone has been my consistent experience. On the other hand I have seen three different types of spiders with the lugged cone. A standard #14 spider, and offset spider, and a short legged, offset spider. I have also seen two different scale lengths, 25" and 24 3/4"
As to the tone of Dobros in general. I have found that Dobros do not have to have that typical nasal tone. With carefull setup, that characteristic can be greatly minimized. But it is often the tone that they naturally defalt to when they are in need of adjustment (somewhat like a single cone National when it gets that overly percussive, banjo-like tone). We are currently living in a Resophonic guitar renaissance. Many people know much more about the specifics of the setup and construction of resos than ever before. Many of the reso guitars being produced today are capable of producing a highly refined tone that was not often heard in the typical vintage instruments that sat on display at local music stores with bad neck angles, bad break angles, shrunken posts and pads, over tightened spider/cone screws, and improper cone setups. Reso guitars are clearly capable of producing a vast array of tonal colors and deserve to be explored and not pigeon-holed. Any person who has not experienced a reso guitar because they think they know how it will sound, is missing out.
Fiddle-edge Dobros are great guitars! Playing one that is well set up is an experience that every reso fan should have.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jul 7, 2011 14:21:42 GMT
I forgot to include this wonderful photograph....  Shine On Michael |
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