Noob Slide Frustration

[geoff]

Hi guys,

This is whining Geoff again. 

My frustration level is at it's peak. After one year of practice I'm starting to get hate attacks. I can't keep my slide down on the first string. I bought an Acousto Glide brass slide. It weighs a ton but I keep lifting it. I've tried the dangling pinky method but I really need to hold my four fingers together in line to keep in tune. I can't slide from halfway up to 12 without lifting. I manage to play with an alternating thumb on base while playing a melody on string 1. To me that seems to be far more difficult than keeping the slide on the board. I've got some online lessons from Keni Lee Burgess but the good man tells me to wait for the magic to happen. Can someone give me some useful advice? I'm building up reso hate here. That can't be good...

Cheers,

Geoff Vane

[Michael Messer]

Hi Geoff,

Reso Hate >We can't have that!

What can we do to help? Without actually seeing you play it is very difficult to know what to say, but I am sure that if I saw you play I could help you.

it is not the slide. You should be able to use any slide...glass, brass, steel, etc... which one you prefer is a different matter, but you should be able to play with your AcoustaGlide slide.

I know this sounds like a sales pitch, but have you got my DVD, An Introduction to Blues Slide Guitar with... ?

I am sure we can help you and get rid of that Reso Hate. We must keep it isolated, we don't want it to spread!!!

Shine On
Michael.

[geoff]

No what DVD do I need exactly? Pitch me to it. I can make a movie where you can see my epic fail if that helps...

[Deleted]

Whereabouts do you live? Try and find someone near you who you can have some lessons from or sit in with..one-to-one is by far and away the best way to learn.

If you are lifting the slide it sounds like you aren't relaxed enough, but without actually seeing you play its pretty much impossible to see if the problem is one of muscle tension, hand position, general posture or a combination of various things.

One thing...and Michael covers this on the DVD....concentrate on the top string, angle the slide so that it just touches the top string and no others, and put the slide to the string just as you would when fretting...i.e.using the part of the slide under your fingertip to make contact. You shouldn't be gripping the neck, just a light contact with your thumb to anchor your hand is all that's needed.

It's very difficult to diagnose at a distance like this, and when you are with a good teacher, it's virtually instant for them to be able to diagnose what's wrong at a glance....but if oyu can't get some personal tuition, Michaels DVD is about as good as you'll get.

[Michael Messer]

Thanks for the kind words John.

Geoff, this DVD should help get you through. If you wish to post a clip of film it may help too.



www.euroblues.co.uk/merchandise.htm

Shine On
Michael.

[Deleted]

I'm assuming you're playing sitting down. Try different chairs (heights), and maybe hold the neck at a slightly higher angle. Are you "hunched" over the neck trying to see what you are doing? Or are you sitting fairly upright. Posture is so important to get right (if only for the health of your spine).

[gaucho]

Michael, is that DVD available in the US? Geoff, I'm no expert so take any advice I have with a grain of salt. Are you playing with the slide on your pinky finger? Maybe try you ring finger with the pink curled over the top of the slide. I know the pinky is the most highly recommended. I use both fingers but have more control with it on my ring finger with a pinky assist!

[Michael Messer]

Hi Gaucho,

The DVD is available from www.euroblues.co.uk/merchandise.htm - and plays in US format.

Shine On
Michael

[geoff]

Me whereabouts are in the Netherlands. Swampy enough to hide some slide teachers but I really dislike obligations. A steep curve is the price I pay for using digital lessons on my own.

I use me pinky, since I read somewhere that is best. Tried to switch to my ring finger but then the slide can only removed with soap afterwards. On the pinky the slide has a very loose fit. I tried stuffing the slide with some extra paper but it doesn't help and maybe makes things worse even.

I do hunch somewhat to see some of the frets. I must sit; I can't play a thing on any guitar when standing. They dangle too much when I use a strap; absolute stability is what I need. I'm playing since 2008 and still have to sit to get something a bit right. I always use classical position with stool and so on. For me it's a must with the tricone because it's so top heavy it tips over when played cowboy style.

I can't sit very long in classical position, because the blood in my left leg stops circulating after half an hour in that pose. And my pink lifting is probably related to the raising of my pinky when drinking tea. I could be a freak of nature who needs a pill under the tongue and an injection behind the ear to play guitar :-) (I'm gonna call me mum now)

Sometimes I let the fretboard tilt toward me so the slide can "rest" on it a bit, but that results in me being just a bit too late, when lifting of the slide is actually needed. And the slide lands too hard due to gravity that way, when I move fast. On the other hand, holding the fretboard straight causes more unwanted slide lifts, because the slide tends to lean away from me, taking me pinky with it. Yes, it's a heavy slide cause I read that's master. I had better results with a flimsy glass strat slide coordination-wise, but that has very poor sound quality. Bob Brozman's elaborate advice to my lengthy cry-baby note was: "Try a glass slide". I could behead a wine bottle some day soon...

[maxxengland]

Just a small question here. Does the guitar nek angle up and away from you at all, or are you holding it more square on to your body?

What we do with our fretting hands is to curl them round the neck like our primate ancestors feeling their way along branches; perhaps the lifting problem might be helped with changing the angle of the instrument.

Slide to finger fit, everybody that plays slide tries everything that looks like a slide. Deep chrome sockets are common (I have a plug socket for spare), motorccle handlebar tube, plumbing pipes in various diameters and thicknesses. Shot glasses.

Not forgetting, if you have no slide, CAREFULLY breaking an empty wine bottle for an original bottleneck.

[Matt]

Geoff,

I play with the slide on my ring finger. I find it easier to control than on my pinky. I think Michael uses his ring finger, and Mike Dowling too. I started that way because it just felt easier to me, and as Mike Dowling points out on one of his DVDs it allows you to reach to and fret high notes with your pinky. It's a matter of preference, but for me the pinky most definitely isn't the best. There are advantages to sliding with your pinky too, and occasionally I'll do that if I can't do something my normal way.

If your current slide won't comfortably sit on your ring finger, and you find the glass slide yo have too poor quality, one option that I'd suggest would be to contact Diamond Bottlenecks, a UK company that makes slides in a variety of glass types, internal widths, thicknesses, lengths etc to suit pretty much any need you'll have. If you are completely bewildered by the choices offered to you (as I was), Ian (the guy who replies to your email) is very patient and helpful in finding the right slide for you. Haven't got mine yet, but I've seen enough glowing comments here to be confident of the quality of the slides.

I think that getting a slide that fits and trying playing on your ring finger could help a lot. While talented players can make a lovely sound with almost any guitar and slide, I've found that learning is many, many times harder if you don't have the right tools, as it leads to slow progress and general disillusionment!

As for the problem with your tricone tipping in cowboy position, I read a great tip somewhere on this forum a while ago (possibly from Michael?) about this. try holding the guitar so that the neck sticks out at a 45 degree angle to your body (in the horizontal plane), and you may well find that it suddenly balances! When I first tried an MM guitar in a shop it almost slid sideways off my lap. The one time since that I've held one I tried that tip, and it seemed to balance fine.

I hope some of that helps! Good luck and keep trying either way, and for what it's worth, I can also highly recommend Michael's DVD, it shows you some technique and lots of other useful stuff that'll let you mess around a lot more easily and have fun.

Cheers

Edit: I've just thought, holding your guitar out at 45 degrees or so to your body might well help with keeping the slide on the fretboard too, as you don't have to bring your arm in so close to your body.

[Deleted]

Geoff..I'd really recommend that you overcome your dislike of obligations and get some face to face tuition if at all possible. One hour with a good teacher is worth a year of trying to figure it out by yourself. Michael's DVDs are very good, but I'm sure if he had 5 minutes you he'd probably suss out exactly what you were doing wrong and set you on the right path straight away. I really can't stress enough: spending time with other slide players, whether as a formal lesson, workshop of informal jam-session will improve your playing far more than years of sitting alone at home with your guitar.

You shouldn't be tilting the guitar towards you, as that's going to put your arm and hand in the wrong position and make things even worse...but we can't see what you are doing, and any further advice is difficult to target properly. It might be strong medicine to have to take, but good personal tuition is the best, and no decent tutor is going to want to belittle you or make you feel bad about your playing.

Also, I'd reitterate what Michael says, it's not the slide that's the problem, you may find one particular slide suits you better, but you should still be able to get going with pretty much any slide that you can get onto your finger.

[Michael Messer]

Geoff, here are a couple of clips of film of me playing acoustic slide guitar. The first is a short sampler of my tuition DVD and the second is from a recent children's TV show. Both films show everything very clearly.





......in addition to my own, there are literally thousands of films on YouTube of people playing slide guitar. I would have thought that watching some of them might help you to get going.

John is correct that five minutes with me or any slide teacher would solve the problem.

Shine On
Michael

[geoff]

Thanks guys. I'm gonna try again if I can find out what's wrong. The DVD may be a good starting point and I'll consult some slide players if I'm still stuck. Thanks for the time and detailed answers. I must overcome the noob anger; this very special National tricone I have is far to beautiful to sound this sad.

[geoff]

Michael, I've studied your two movies here. I see you do hold the guitar a few degrees towards your body.

I'll try to talk in airplane terms here: the upper f hole a few degrees pitched towards you, the neck banked up a few degrees and sometimes perfectly horizontal, the heading of the neck a few degrees away from your body.

If I try that position, I must point the headstock a few degrees to the ground. If not, the tricone will fall to the right. I certainly can't make the headstock point up a little; that would require serious elbow clamping.