Differences between...generally speaking?

[jackstrat]

Hiya Gang,

These might seem like fairly rudimentary questions, but bearing in mind that the only dobros/resos that I've had experience of are the three that I own (Busker Delta, Hobo and Regal RD40)...I was wondering...

Generally speaking, which are louder/have better sound projection...biscuit bridge style guitars or spider-bridge? (I presume metal vs. wood in terms of body construction probably comes into this also?)

Of my three, the two biscuit-bridge guitars are definitely louder/fuller than the spider-bridge...is this the norm or are there some other factors at play would you think? Don't get me wrong, the spider-bridge is plenty loud, just that the others are louder...

Yours in curiosity,
Niall

[Michael Messer]

Hi Niall,

The most powerful 'attack' type of sound comes from a single-cone National-style guitar with either a wood or metal body. However a good spider-bridge Dobro-type guitar should have equal volume but with slightly less attack. A good Dobro-type guitar should easily be able to be heard above an acoustic ensemble. Equally, a Tricone should be able to project and clearly heard in an acoustic band situation. This is why they built - they are mechanically amplified instruments. Tricone, Single-cone or spider-bridge, should be something like 3 to 6 times more powerful than a regular acoustic instrument. In the case of a National mandolin (real one, not NRP), I would say 10 times more powerful!

The RD40 is a sweet sounding guitar and great instrument to learn withj, but as far as projection and volume goes, it doesn't compare to a good Dobro or hand-built instrument.

Your Busker Delta & Hobo guitars were built by people with a real understanding of resophonic instruments. The RD40 sadly was not. It has a sweet tone, but has not been designed by people with much understanding at all. It is Dopyera's amazing invention 'The Spider-bridge & cone' that makes your guitar have a sweet tone, not the builder's understanding of resophonic guitars.

I am not trying to put down your Regal. It is a good guitar for learning & playing on a budget, but it is not a Dobro. I have played many Regals and they do sound sweet, but they do not project as they should.

I hope I have answered your question without appearing too negative.

Shine On
Michael.

[jackstrat]

Hiya Michael,

No, not negative at all...I take your point on all counts. As I say I've such little experience of these types of instrument that every aspect is new to me...I just don't know how things should or should not be but I am learning all the time!

There's no doubt that the Busker guitars are in a league of their own. The sound literally leaps out of them and I often find myself in that rather nice position of having to almost underplay in an attempt to control them – bringing out some of the real subtleties of the sounds which is actually kinda nice (most of what I'm doing is sort of atmospheric accompaniment to just another acoustic guitar and vocals anyway).

The Regal on the other hand takes a little bit more coaxing at times, but you know what, that's good in its own way coz it brings out a different side of my playing (I think)! I'm getting a Fishman active pickup fitted to it next week so as it can become my engineer-proof all-rounder. Some of the sound engineers round here don't know what it is to mic an acoustic instrument unfortunately!

The other side of this was evident last week however when we did a live recording for television and while we were setting up, the main engineer actually came up, stuck his head over my shoulder while I was playing the Hobo, had a good look and a listen and commented on what a great little guitar it was. I reckon he wanted to hear it raw, to hear what I was hearing, so he could capture that as best as possible on the recording. Why can't they all be like that?!!

Sound out!
Niall
Niall

[percythewonderant]

Set up makes a lot of difference to volume and another aspect of this discussion is that some instruments project better than others. I owned a round necked dobro that when held vertically was, in my opinion, pretty unremarkable. Other people said that it was OK. Played lap style it had a much sweeter tone than I was normally aware of and could just about blow my ears off, if I dug in.

Perce

[andys]

Slightly off topic, but I have never understood why resonator guitars are not more popular with street musicians especially when played with other instruments.

I had a graphic demonstration of this a few times. One was witnessing a band playing at a PR event at a shop in York. This band were called Blackbeards Men, and were dressed in pirate clothes, and played a folky sort of stuff using a percussion box, a sousaphone, an concertina and an acoustic guitar. All good stuff and they were pulling the crowds but the guitar was basicly inaudible because it was drowned out by the other instruments and the singing. Then round the corner in a public busking area, was an indie band doing Oasis/Coldplay type covers, with a line up of a drummer with a snare and hi-hat, a bassist thru a pretty sizeable battery amp, and two acoustics, again neither of which could be heard at all. So I'm thinking, if those two bands had used resonators, even budget ones, the guitars would have been heard.

This was finally brought home to me when I did a couple of songs at a local folk club about a week later. All the other singers who used guitars had either dreadnought or auditorium style acoustics, which were drowned out by either their voices or any accompanying instruments like concertinas or fiddles. I did my two songs using my MM Blues, and not only did the sound cut right through to the back of the room and bounce back, but someone came up to me afterwards and said that my guitar even drowned out my voice (which in my opinion is not a bad thing!!).

So in short I'm suprised that resonators dont get used more by buskers pub sessioners and street musicians, maybe theres another reason for it? For me if I ever busked or was in that situation I wouldnt hesitate to use a resophonic guitar of whatever type.

[steverino]

Andys I think it is mainly a lack of awareness of the capabilities of resonators; the thought to use them never occurs. I have been vaguely aware of Nationals and Dobros for most of my 45 years of playing guitars, mostly in relation to their traditional niche applications, but never tried them until a couple of years ago and was won over immediately. Now I am rather surprised at how relatively quiet and unresponsive most wooden acoustic guitars are, especially played up the neck.

[Michael Messer]

It is an interesting and valid point, and one that I have thought and talked about many times.

I think the reason for resonator guitars being locked into certain genres of music is probably due to; ignorance, partisan attitudes associating them with blues & country, the fact that most budget-priced resonators don't sound great, and until recently with the existence of good budget-priced ones, the rarity and price of originals and high quality modern instruments like National Reso-Phonic and Fine Resophonic.

Having said all that, there are quite a few recordings of well known artists playing resonator guitars in musical settings other than blues & country, so maybe it is just ignorance and lack of knowledge.

Shine On
Michael

[jackstrat]

Hiya Lads,

Yep interesting points all round...

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I set about getting a Fishman p-up fitted to my RD40 purely for the purposes of consistency of sound and volume at gigs. The microphone option definitely beats everything hands down in terms of sound/subtleties etc. but I just needed/wanted to get a simple foolproof set-up going and that's what I've got now...plug and play.
An added bonus that came with this modification to my guitar is that when the luthier who fitted the p-up was putting the guitar back together, he made some little adjustments and tweaks with the result that I've now got a guitar with a noticeably warmer tone without ever plugging it in. Admittedly it's gained a couple of little metallic zings when striking certain strings (not sure why, and perhaps they were always there!) but nothing that wouldn't be expected from a reso anyway I guess. I'm happy!

Niall

[andys]

Michael,

I agree. Often when you get out a shiny resonator guitar, folk have two stereotypes in mind. One is that you need to relocate to some ramshackle porch and "play some blues", or that you should knock out a version of "Romeo and Julliet"!

I would like to hear my flat fingerboard MM Blues in the hands of a classsical or flamenco player to see what they would do with it. I am waiting on another Busker guitar which would mean that I could put one of my resonators in standard tuning, and play other stuff.

I guess to a certain extent its like other guitars. Until recently the snobbery about Telecasters had them down as being "country twanging" guitars, meanwhile some session guys in Nashville were quietly starting to play PRS guitars. Yet a Tele can rock out, wail and jazz with the best of em in the right hands.

Resonators are for so much more than bashing out Blues IMO. And thats my point for buskers and street musicians. Even a cheap resonator will cut through better than some cheap acoustic. In fact for this type of playing a resonator will be more durable as well. Whatever music you play.

[steadyrollinman]

Not forgetting Michael's advice on the Sound Techniques DVD " you can win a fight with a National"

Nuff said.

[gouranga]

Hi Folks.
I Agree Andy. The reso withstands the weather out there on the streets better also and cuts through a lot of street noise. You just need the voice to go over the top of the old reso.
I use mine for all sorts on the street. I just bash her upside down and she takes it and in this weather too. Would not even think to try it in this weather with an ordinary acoustic.
I was doing street concert and the likes in Serbia last winter with my tricone, and she done real well, and the weather was sometimes 10 below zero.
I use the reso for evrything. I just like the guitar, the sound, it's also tough, loud and many other things. I don't know why I did not get one years ago, missed out sadly.
Why does it have to be seen as just a Blues box??? It will play everything and real nicely too.
That's my 2p worth for the day.

Take care folks

Gouranga

Youtube.... type in' Monk singing on Royal Mile'