Supro question

[Deleted]

I need help finding pictures of a No. 23 Supro Arcadia wood body.

[Mark Makin]

Hello Kandobro
This is the best I can do - it is a Harmony built SUPRO ARCADIA from 1941 number G3536. The f holes are slightly different to those featured on pre-war Arcadia adverts. They are similar to those used on later Harmony built National Havanas.
Any use?
Mark

[zak71]

Judging by the post count, the original poster never returned...but I thought someone else might like to see these photos.
It's a 1938 "Santacilla" branded version of the Arcadia.





This particular specimen has the f-holes positioned in the same location as the Arcadia print ads, a re-print of which appears in Mark Makin's excellent (and essential!) "Palm Trees, Senoritas...And Rocket Ships" on page 85. 
The Arcadia has a scale length of approximately 24" (I say approximately, because correctly intonated it measures closer to 24 3/32"), and a smooth (no "spirals") 8" cone identical to the ones found in the National 1133s mounted in a crude plywood soundwell. The body is made from solid birch, as opposed to the thicker and sturdier plywood used on Trojans and other Chicago-era wood bodied Nationals.
It has a "cheap" sound and feel to it, reminiscent of mix between a Trojan and a birch bodied Harmony archtop. It was clearly not intended as a "professional" instrument, but it has a charming funkiness to it.
Here's a brief sample:


I have a strong suspicion that this is also the type of instrument that the young McKinley Morganfield is photographed with:



Muddy had told Johnny Winter that he "had a resonator guitar" prior to his move to Chicago, I am pretty sure that Muddy was intelligent and experienced enough enough to know the difference between a resonator guitar and one of those "faux resonator" cheapies that the guitar in the photograph is usually identified as.  

[Michael Messer]

Hi Zak,

I have never put two and two together on this one, but looking at your photos, I think you are right about Muddy's guitar in this picture being the same model as yours.

Shine On
Michael

[Deleted]

I think Muddy's guitar is more like this supertone (possibly the same one ), belonging to my good friend Edwin Garland of Sydney.
As pictured in the bottom right catalogue on p85 of palm trees etc.

Attachments:

[Michael Messer]

....Excellent, now we're getting there!

As for it possibly being the same one; If I had a pound for every time I have heard someone say that their old resonator guitar could be the one in a particular photo of a legendary musician, I would be living on an island in the sun!

Shine On
Michael.

[Mark Makin]

Thanks for the first hand information and measurements, body materials etc, of the Santacilla Zak, it's always great to get first hand descriptions with the thing right there in front of you!
Best
mark

[zak71]

Nov 14, 2013 8:16:17 GMT @deuce said:

I think Muddy's guitar is more like this supertone 

Hi deuce, what features of that Supertone seem "more like" Muddy's guitar in the John Work photograph?
It appears to be the same Harmony-made body, outfitted with a 'Dobro style' coverplate (and possibly a different style of cone).
From the angle of the guitar in the "Young Muddy" picture, I don't quite see how you were able to determine that the Supertone is a better match?

All three of the guitars pictured in this thread so far have the same Harmony-made body and neck, with the same headstock shape and fretboard dot placement. Beyond that, it is close to impossible to pinpoint other features. Wish they'd taken another photograph or two that day!

[Deleted]

Hello zak
The reason I think its more likely is that I studied the 'better quality' picture of Muddys guitar and the bottom left catalogue (yes I know I said botom right before) for a considerable period of time earlier this year when attempting to identify Edwins guitar.
In the 'better quality' picture, I can clearly see the semicircles of holes as in Edwins guitar. Have a closer look!!
TT

[zak71]

Nov 14, 2013 16:13:34 GMT @deuce said:

Have a closer look!!
 

Ok, thanks for the better quality photograph.
I see some more detail in the higher resolution version...but still not enough to positively identify the coverplate with 100% certainty!
It could have been one of these, as well:




Whatever incarnation of the "budget" models it may have been, I do think it was a guitar with an actual cone, as opposed to a "faux-bro" which instrument in the photo is typically identified as.

I just have a hard time believing that Muddy would have had difficulty distinguishing between the two types of instruments.

[Deleted]

Youre right, I couldn't say with 100% certainty. But I'll say it with 99.9+% certainty
...same as Edwins, same as yours with different cover plate.
But I'll say with 100% certainty Muddys guitar is quite different to the sovereign.

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[mitchfit]

deuce said:

...(possibly the same one )"...

MM said:

..."As for it possibly being the same one"...

i know that if i ever decide to move my 1133, i will
be looking hard for ~black and white~ photographs
of Michael playing one...

[just joking]

along those same lines:

guitarvintners.auctivacommerce.com/1936-Oahu-Custom-Shop-Lap-Steel-Guitar-P3152575.aspx

mitchfit