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Post by fitchmeister on Aug 10, 2009 10:46:58 GMT
Short quetstion really - am finding it a challenge to vamp after i have slid upto the IV or V chord. Am wearing my slide on my pinky - lift the slide off ? Use my right hand to damp? Do something else? Would be interested on how others do it - am trying to work it into a song and for some reason it's bugging me Cheers Roj
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2009 11:00:25 GMT
Are you using fretted chords as well? For song accompaniment, using 'shortened' two or three string chords and fingered bass patterns are a really good way to go, it provides a good contrast for the slide work. I think a lot of players use too much slide in open tunings, and forget that there's a whole other spectrum of tone and harmony available by fretting notes and using fingered chords. Kevin Brown put me onto this and I've never looked back since.
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Post by blueshome on Aug 10, 2009 13:59:39 GMT
IV & V chords at the 5th and 7th frets are the refuge of a scoundrel sir! If you fret chords in open positions, not only does it sound better it allows more variation.
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Post by fitchmeister on Aug 10, 2009 14:23:26 GMT
Hi Guys Thanks for the responses. I can play the shortened chords - tho i tend to do em 3 fingered. I want to use a nice fat slide up into the IV chord and then vamp. It's a sound in my head that's trying to get out I have been called many things and scoundrel is just one of them ;D Roj
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Post by bod on Aug 10, 2009 14:51:25 GMT
It's not like I know anything, just making this up as I go - but if you want to slide up to the IV chord and then vamp in that chord, have you tried just swapping the slide finger out and the next finger in at that juncture? (I haven't) Also, whilst genuinely appreciative of the insight that there is such a thing as too much playing of chords in this way, I also wonder if there might be such a thing as too little - like none at all, ever! Can I be the only one who'd be slightly encouraged into doing this now and then by the idea that it is 'the refuge of scoundrels'? ;D Dave
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Post by steverino on Aug 10, 2009 16:45:45 GMT
Assuming that we have slid into home at the 5th or 7th fret, it makes sense to decorate the chord a little. Sometimes I'll venture up two frets on the first string, or slide from one fret below on the second string. Finding some notes nearby that serve the melody can make things interesting. Often though, less is more and an impassioned single note can say more than a bunch of them strung together:
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Post by blueshome on Aug 10, 2009 22:42:26 GMT
You can get good results 2 ways - either by using the slide and lifting slightly with a damping finger behind as the lap guys do, or doing same with 1st finger. after all only scoundrels play slide guitar.
My real beef is with players who only ever go to the 5th & 7th frets and especially those who go to the 7th fret for the final V chord in the sequence. Of the old blues guys only Kokomo Arnold did this with a partial on the 1st & 2nd strings, his other IV & V chords where fretted in 1st position.
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Post by melp on Aug 11, 2009 9:46:40 GMT
Hi,
Interesting discussion! This is something I have, had, to spend some time on, as I love the sound of the slide up but need some variation once I get there. Like, and use, to some extent, most of the things mentioned so far - especially barring then using a finger or slide three, then two frets above on the 1st string.
Currently working on working out fretted fills behind the slide after the slide up. Tricky, but am finding that you can get some nice effects.
Also, use of chords that step back - to the 4th fret - then step up back to the 5th. I got this from a Bob Brozman DVD, he uses the slide then breaks into harmonised chords, sometimes including a move to double time.
Clearly, the key is variation and having lots of ideas in the bag. I think I am making some progress in this area, but am finding that it takes, me, a lot of practice to make the transition back and forth, between slide and fretting, smooth.
I guess that this is the beauty of round neck slide, the possibilities are endless!
Cheers
Mel
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Post by fitchmeister on Aug 11, 2009 13:09:24 GMT
I think as long as you enjoy the journey that's what counts. Thanks for your thoughts guys.
Roj
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 12, 2009 18:05:59 GMT
Hi Roj,
If you want to vamp/strum at the fifth, seventh, or any other fret up the neck with the slide, you need to work on lifting the slide and dampening to stop the sound. This is a lap steel guitar technique that has been used by Hawaiian steel and Dobro players since the invention of Hawaiian guitar. I have used this technique in both bottleneck & lap steel playing ever since I started. It is quite hard to master, but once you get going it is a wonderful technique. I don't think there is any tuition that covers it bottleneck style, but I am sure Sally Van Meter, Jerry Douglas, Rob Ickes and Orville Johnson all teach this in their DVDs.
Casey Bill Weldon was great at it and had a unique approach to this technique, which I think is more the technique I use than the names mentioned above. I say 'think' because I have no evidence to prove that statement except for my ears.
I also like to play 4 and 5 chords without the slide on the 5th and 7th frets. Not always, but sometimes it can be the perfect chord to use. Ted Hawkins & Richie Havens are two names that spring to mind. Bo Diddley is another.
Shine On Michael
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2009 4:29:47 GMT
Since reading this thread I am wondering what your definitin of 'vamping' is. I googled it and it seems to mean maintaining a groove by repeated chord sequences. If this is the case then bar chords with the fingers are probably the best way to do it.
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Post by percythewonderant on Aug 13, 2009 5:56:12 GMT
If you are trying to vamp with the slide on the strings, try damping behind the slide and using no vibrato or minimal vibrato. Soud just two or three strings, and if you want a more percussive sound, after they have rung, damp them with the heel of your right hand by dropping it across the strings with a very gentle slap. Easier still if you are not using finger picks just use your knuckles. John Martyn was a master at damping like this.
Frinstance for practice - if you are in DGDGBD type tuning slide up to the 5th fret and using just strings 3 4 & 5 play a bar and a half on the 5th fret half a bar sliding up from the 3rd fret to the 4th fret back to the 5th fret. use a 'Born to be Wild Rhythm'.
There's always Olde Pa Sparrow's 'Brown Sugar' fretted approach too.
Percy
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Post by Michael Messer on Aug 13, 2009 10:02:41 GMT
My take on the word VAMP in this context is that it means STRUMMING a rhythm on the guitar.
Shine On Michael.
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Post by fitchmeister on Aug 13, 2009 11:52:24 GMT
Hi Mike Vamp - in my understanding - use of damping to create a different groove when strumming. A bit different to a percussive strike because enough of the notes sound to keep it in it's musical context. Coud be wrong - it's the word i chose The question came after re visiting your DVD (sound techniques i think it's called) and the teaching DVD for some ideas. I saw you using your left hand to damp when alternate bass in open D, i tried that which sounds different to 'dead' thumbing the bass notes. I then wanted to move it up to the IV try vamping/strumming with the slide and found I couldn't get much result. I could see how i might (lift the slide etc) so i thought i'd ask on this forum to see what other people did, was it worth persevering with etc to widen my left hand damping skills. Some other stuff has also come out to give me something to think about. CBJ's post has got me listening out for bass runs behind lyrics. Quite surprised at the level of response - thanks again Roj
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Post by Bill Stig on Aug 13, 2009 12:43:03 GMT
Blue bottle is correct in his definition of "vamping". It's a term frequently used by jazz musicians.
Bill
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