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Post by weetmans on Jun 13, 2009 9:08:16 GMT
Hi,
This may be common knowledge, but it wasn't something I knew so I thought I'd pass it on. I recently bought a Beltona Southerner from a forum member, and a fine guitar it is, too!
However, after a few weeks the resonator cone started to collapse. I contacted Steve Evans at Beltona, and it appears the collapse was caused by putting heavy (015 or more) strings on the guitar. Steve informs me that he makes resonator cones in 2 thicknesses (008 and 010), and that the 008 cone will not handle heavy strings. He tells me that he always asks what string gauge will be used on the guitar, and sets up the guitar for this string gauge.
Replacing a resonator is no big deal, but probably not something you want to do if you can avoid it.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 13, 2009 11:42:48 GMT
Hi Weetmans,
15 to 56 strings used in DGDGBD, DADF#AD, and EADGBE, should not collapse a cone. They are not heavy strings, they are medium strings with a slightly heavier top E. I have used 15/56 strings on every type of resonator guitar, some with fragile 1920s cones, for the past 20 years.
I have only ever had 3 or 4 cones collapse in 30 years of collecting and gigging with Nationals & Dobros.
Replacing a resonator is in my opinion...a big deal as it is the heart & soul of the instrument.
As long as you are happy with your guitar, that is all that counts. The Southerner is a very nice instrument. I have seen a few of them and they do sound great.
Thanks for posting that information.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by robn on Jun 13, 2009 12:57:35 GMT
The cones we use on the MM guitars are a shade under .009 and they will certainly take a wide range of string tensions. I've run 16-59s as high as GBDGBD on these cones and 13-56 in open A or E (I think Michael has run 15-56 in open E and open A). At the other extreem I often use 13-56 in open G and open D. So the capability of this cone gauge (about .0088) without choking (or collapsing) with a high tension or loosing volume (or rattling) with a low tension seems pretty good.
Robin
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2009 14:05:49 GMT
Hallo
If this is the Beltona you bought from me then I have emails to prove that it was shipped to me with the 13/56 set that I asked for. When you bought it I had replaced the strings with MM Newtone 13/56 strings.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 13, 2009 17:15:56 GMT
If the 15 to 56 strings on the Beltona were MM Newtones, they come up to pitch at slightly less tension than most brands on the market. I have never heard of a resonator guitar that can't take medium gauge strings, let alone medium strings that tune to pitch at lower tension.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by weetmans on Jun 14, 2009 17:53:49 GMT
First of all, let me make it clear to Barry (and anybody else) that the guitar was great when I picked it up from him, so I have no complaints there. I don't know why the resonator started to collapse, but it did. My posting was based on advice from Stev eEvans at Beltona.
Maybe it is my playing style (I am a bit heavy handed, particularly with the "slap"), maybe it was a "Friday" cone. No big deal - I'll replace it, probably with an Amistar, which are built like tanks. The guitar is equipped with lots of pickups anyway, so it won't matter if the cone is a bit heavier than required.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 15, 2009 7:41:08 GMT
Hi Weetmans,
My comments were made in your defence. I think the cone was just as you say....a Friday afternoon one.
Your playing style would not collapse a good cone, there must be a fault with the one you have IMO.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2009 7:00:24 GMT
It was the cone, and having seen Weetmans play the Beltona I know he is no Pete Townsend!
With a good cone it will become a very good guitar.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2009 4:52:18 GMT
In my humble opinion Beltona cones are suspect. I had a beltona uke and the cone collapsed after I replaced the nylon strings with superior Nylguts which I have on all my ukes. Steve put a new cone in and said it was only really made for the GHS strings. After about two months guess what? The new cone started to collapse. They don't completely collapse but end up with a lower string height on the high strings which makes them buzz against the frets. A real pain in the arse. I'd get a National cone if I was you.  |
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 24, 2009 7:59:20 GMT
I have never heard of a Ukulele cone collapsing. There is not much pressure from any type of uke strings. Nylguts are a little heavier than regular strings, but not enough to collapse a cone. Interesting.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by colinbrooks on Jun 24, 2009 10:02:43 GMT
The previous owner of my Beltona tenor uke collapsed the cone by tuning to 'D' rather than 'C', with Nylguts. The Beltona uke cones have a pattern of concentric rings similar to the very earliest National ukes.
This design may well have been based on gramophone/phonograph cones of the 20's.
My '28 National #1 uke still has its early style cone and a number of us think it is the best sounding resonator uke we have heard. I use Nylguts tuned to 'C'.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 24, 2009 12:51:06 GMT
I know those cones and you are right Colin, they sound lovely. I still don't think it should collapse if tuned above C?
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2009 4:40:59 GMT
Yes and I think that design is what gives them the weakness. There is definitely a problem and I was really dissappointed with mine after paying a premium for it. I wasn't to keen on the sound of the uke either. I would be interested to know what Franks Republic ukes sound like? The previous owner of my Beltona tenor uke collapsed the cone by tuning to 'D' rather than 'C', with Nylguts. The Beltona uke cones have a pattern of concentric rings similar to the very earliest National ukes. This design may well have been based on gramophone/phonograph cones of the 20's. My '28 National #1 uke still has its early style cone and a number of us think it is the best sounding resonator uke we have heard. I use Nylguts tuned to 'C'. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2009 14:24:19 GMT
The Design of the Cone on the Beltona Southerner, which started this thread, was in my opinion poor. It was pressed from solid sheet, not wound, and thus I am sure had far less resonating potential than a wound cone.
The Busker Delta that I have as a replacement is infinitely more responsive. If glass fibre really is a better sound transmitter than steel, which is the Beltona claim, then the cone in the Delta must be far far better than that fitted to the Beltona.
When the Beltona gets a proper wound cone then it should, if the g/f claim is true be a very very fine guitar indeed.
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Post by Michael Messer on Jun 26, 2009 8:29:15 GMT
Hi Barry,
What do you mean when you say the cone was 'pressed from a solid sheet, rather than wound' ?
Shine On
Michael
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