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Post by snakehips on Feb 8, 2009 19:12:55 GMT
Hi there ! My friend recently bought a National Style "O" on ebay - cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250338346276&indexURL=9&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohostingEverything looks great - BUT - the tuners are weird ! As far as I can tell, the tuners are the rarer variety where the tuner post worms are on the other side of the fixings to the tuner posts than almost every other tuners you will find. A difficulty if you wanted to get replacement tuners as I don't think anyone makes them this way around - they are rare enough even on Nationals. I hope you know what I mean !!! (It has been discussed on this forum in the past). Shouldn't be a problem if the tuners work fine though - ie. no reason to change them. However, you have to look closely at the ebay pictures of the tuners to spot the worm gears turn the wrong direction on the 3rd string tuner - I think the 3rd string tuner gear has been replaced - with a gear from a regular set !! What should my friend do  Thanks ! |
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 8, 2009 21:54:52 GMT
Hi Snakehips
Reading your post made me gave a look at the tuners on my 1931 Duolian my tuners are the same as your mates with the post worms on the other side,the nickel plating is wearing off but their still in good nick
something i never noticed before,also Ian McWee noticed mine had a original ebony fret board,there is vertually no wear and the neck is still very straight , and very playable,and i think that to other Duolians i have played on there is a difference soundwise.
wolvoboy
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Post by tark on Feb 9, 2009 18:16:22 GMT
Errm ... 3 on a plate? I think these have just been fitted the wrong way round. You may be able to just swap them over to the other side of the headstock. I just tried this with the old set I removed from my MM. As far as I can see you can flip them.
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 9, 2009 19:25:15 GMT
Hi Tark i dont think the tuners are on the wrong way round, you have a left and a right, because the gear is on the top, the thread on the post is opposite so when you tune your guitar its the same way as a normal set,not only that the holes on the plate would'nt line up,thats why Snakehips mates guitar has a different post from a regular set and turns the opposite way,i'm sure some of the members can give us some info on this.
wolvoboy
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Post by snakehips on Feb 9, 2009 19:45:04 GMT
Hi again !
Tark - you gotta read what I said rather than assume I've made a simple stupid mistake.
Did you check out the ebay photos ?
Well, if you do, you will see the 3rd string tuner gear/worm thingy cogs go the opposite way to the others.
Solution (other than replacing the whole set) - anyone else got a set like this rare set that they don't use any more because some parts are bust ?
Should just need ONE gear/worm/cog thingy really.
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 9, 2009 23:47:06 GMT
Snakehips - I have seen upside down tuners on old Nationals, but not one that turns the wrong way. I can't help you with a replacement, but maybe someone out there will have what you are looking for.
Wolvoboy - I doubt if the fretboard on your Duolian is ebony. More likely to be compressed paper that looks like ebony.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 10, 2009 8:00:12 GMT
Hi Michael
You could be right, it might not be ebony its hard to tell ,but there is no playing wear on the fret board just smoother through playing,and no signs of deteriation,Ian McWee had a look at it and he seems to think that it is ebony,he looked to see if there were any signs, that it had been changed but it hasnt.also i showed it to a friend who is an expert on wood he said if you look very close you can see the grain he said it was definatly ebony.
I contacted Mark Shoenburger he said that he has come across it a few times he said that he has seen a few Duolians with ebony fret boards,he said at the time National used whatever materials they had available.but at the end of the day it doesnt really matter it still plays fine and thats all i care about.
wolvoboy
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 10, 2009 8:10:44 GMT
Snakehips
I have just had an Email from Marc shoenburger as regards to the what he calls (gear up tuners} he said that most Nationals from circa 1928 to 1931 have gear up tuners,and that in 1933 the guitar industry got together and decided on a standard of gear down,he said {so now you can sort of date the guitar by the tuners} as regards to replacements Stuart McDonald has some gear up tuners and you can get replacements from him
wolvoboy
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 10, 2009 8:30:53 GMT
Hi Snakehips again Just found this site, a Luthier called steven Kovacik he has just acquired a load of vintage guitar and mandolin tuners, and has a few sets of the gear up tuners or what he calls reverse gear tuners im sure he could help you out here's the link to the site. www.guitar-repair.com/tuners.htmwolvoboy |
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Post by Michael Messer on Feb 10, 2009 9:13:56 GMT
Marc Schoenberger is correct about what he calls 'Gear Up' tuners. I don't think they were used on most Nationals through to 31, but they were on early models. I didn't realize that was the question that Snakehips was asking, I should have read it more carefully.
Shine On
Michael.
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Post by wolvoboy on Feb 10, 2009 10:12:47 GMT
Hi Michael
I think what Marc should have said is that the gear up tuners were used on some Nationals up to 31,my Duolian is a 31 as you know and it has gear up tuners also,maybe my Duolian was made early in 1931,i dont know how to tell what month it was made,but i find it very interesting ,until Snakehips put the post up i never new about gear up tuners we learn something new every day
wolvoboy
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 19:41:34 GMT
My '30 Triolian had the "backwards" tuners (as well as some of my earlier parlor guitars). My '31 Triolian and '31 Duolian do not. Every now and then you can find these tuners on ebay, usually pretty cheap if you're just looking to salvage a couple of parts from a trashed set.
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