Baffled!

[Stevie]

So you've heard it all before eh? I've put quite some effort into listening to the sound clips. I have a colleague with a National tricone. I have to admit, listening to his instrument and his advice, the tricone type seems to separate the notes better than the single variant. I have played 14 fret instruments for 38 years now and to go back to twelve fret would be like having to cope with the classical guitar that I started on. I recall that Stephen Delft once wrote in "International musician and Recording World" that these smaller instruments sound quite wrong with 14 frets to the body but my prejudice together with the convenience of twelve fret access with a capo 2nd leaves me stumped. I started off with a preconceived notion of my ideal instrument and the MM Lightning ticked all the boxes- now I'm not so sure. A tricone, nickel on brass, sounds and looks good but subjectively I'd sooner see "F" holes. I'm currently clutching my works Xmas club fund payout of £10 per week. (£500) I prefer the visuals of a twelve fret design but the ergonomics of the 14 fret type are very compelling. I need some experienced comment that might just tip the balance for me. Cheers, Stevie.

[robn]

Hi Stevie,

12 fret v 14 fret

The 12 fret v 14 fret sound difference is probably far more pronounced on a regular flat top acoustic where the bridges and hence the vibration centre of the soundboard are in different places. On a small acoustic guitar (parlor) a 12 fret neck moves the bridge more to the middle of the soundboard - as the soundboard on a parlor is small this makes quite a difference and gives a better tone from the small surface area you have available. It maybe this factor Stephen Delft was referring to?

Resonator guitars are different. The bridge and cone system stay in the same place for both 12 and 14 fret bodies. The body is just two frets shorter. There is a slight difference in internal air volume ant the body of a 14 fret is slightly "stiffer". This does lead to some people hearing more punch from a 14 fret - but you have to really hear quite a few to pick that up. I think that the general guitar to guitar variation is greater than the 12/14 thing on a reso.

That said I like 12 fret reso guitars because: they look balanced and feel great in your hands and are easy to play.

And some people like 14 fret guitars because: they look balanced and feel great in your hands and are easy to play.

The honest truth is to pick what you like the look of and just play it - you'll adapt to either !

Tricone v Single Cone

Big difference here. Tricones are complex sounding, rich and quite "jazz" or "swing" to my ears. They have less bass than single cone guitars but a little more sustain.

Single cone guitars have more attack, more bass response and a little less sustain.

I like single cone guitars for their look, street corner live playing functionality and volume.

Other people like tricones for their look, street corner live playing functionality and volume.

Choose what you like and play it - you really won't be either disappointed or making the wrong choice if you choose a 12fret or 14 fret or a tricone or a single cone, just a different choice. That's the great thing about reso guitars !


Cheers,

Robin

PS - 12 fret single cones are obviously the best choice because they are the guitars I personally prefer ;D ;D ;D

[Michael Messer]

Hi Stevie G4vrr,

I have to be careful when I write about my guitar preferences because it can just look like a sales pitch for MM guitars. I really do try to give honest opinions on this forum, otherwise I might as well just post adverts.

The original National designs were 12 fret instruments and to me they are the most aesthetically pleasing and in most cases have the tone & sound that I prefer. 12 fret bodies are bigger and have more bottom end. They also tend to sound sweeter. Having said all that, I have heard some wonderful 14 fret resonator guitars. I have played 12 fret National, Dobro, Fine Resophonic and MM guitars for 30 years, so I am very much at one with that style of instrument. I play lots of songs with a capo on the 2nd and 3rd frets where I need access to the 14th & 15th frets for slide playing. I have no problem reaching those notes.

I am sure that if you buy an MM LIGHTNING and wish to return it - as long as it is in perfect condition and you pay the return postage, that would be fine.

I hope we have helped

Shine On
Michael.

[wolvoboy]

Hi all its very strange people's preference's all my guitars including parlor guitars are all 12 fret i sold my Dobro which was 14 fret just didnt get on with it ,for me i prefer 12 fret's i think they are the most pleasing to look at and to play,but in the end i think its what you get used to,if there were no 12 fret's you would have to get used to 14 fret's and visa versa.
wolvoboy

[melp]

Hi Stevie,

I hate choices like this, I used to be indicisive but now I am not too sure! When I make one I always seem to end up wishing I had got the other, maybe this is why I have ended up with about a dozen instruments.

If this resonates (sorry) with you maybe the best approach is to figure out which one you prefer, then get the other one.

But seriously, it seems like you have the choice between practical (14) the original and many would say 'best' (12).

I get the issue with more flexibility with capo on a 14 but as Michael said people adapt, so how much does it really matter?

Two of mine are 12's, and the other is 21. But I recently realised that my main steel string acoustic is a 14.

My view, toss a coin, then get a 12.

cheers

Mel

[andys]

I have two 14 fretters. One is a MM Blues and one is a rather battered Simon and Patrick Dreadnaught.
I got the MM Blues with 14 frets because I like the top fret access, as I sometimes jam with folk playing in A or E standard tuning, and also because it makes the switch from playing Teles and LP Jnrs a bit easier. My first intro to resonators was a Vintage Cutaway so I guess I got used to top fet access. Mind you my next guitar purchase is either a parlour style or a Tricone, both of which are 12 fretter mainly.

Just my personal preference, but I like the extra two frets of a 14 fretter, as I often use a capo, and like the easy switch between guitars. having said that my MM Blues still is rapidly losing paint round the bottom horn,

Having said that switching between resonators and electrics is made easier by fitting my Teles with 11s and 12s strings as well!

Side by side comparison to me is that the 12 fret MM felt a bit springier under the fingers compared to my 14 fretter. I couldnt really compare the tone because my 14 fretter is brass and the 12 fretter I played was steel.

I think as Robin says, theres no right or wrong, theres just what feels right to your ears and hands.

[Gerry C]

Just to confuse y'all further - as I mentioned a few weeks ago, the splendid Steve Phillips is currently playing a Santa Cruz with THIRTEEN frets.... He still sounds fairly OK, though! ;D

Cheerily,

Gerry C

[marshcat]

Only my opinion, but you can't beat an old 11 1/3 fret tricone...



Marshcat

[markm]

I own an old 14 fret Duolian with the solid headstock and rolled f holes. I also own a newer 12 fret National Polychrome tricone. Two totally different sounds. For blues, the Duolian is king. It has a short attack with an almost banjo-like sound, and it is very loud and focused.. For slide, the 14 frets are very convenient. The tricone is more balanced sounding and has an almost gypsy guitar sound. It's great for multipurpose use, but I do miss the 2 frets extra frets away from the body. I've played 12 fret single cones as well, but when it comes to delta blues, I prefer the sound of my 14 fret Duolian. However, I don't think there is a huge difference in the sound between the 12 and 14 frets, but there is a slight difference. I certainly don't think your live audience will be able to tell. I think you need to decide on the importance of having the two extra frets or not. If that section of the neck is rarely used by you, then go for the 12 fret guitar.

[Stevie]

Thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply to my post. I have just spent Christmas in The Lake District and have returned to the south to be amazed by the response.
Carefully reading your advice, I have identified the fact that 12 fret is the way to go and probably single cone.
I have only limited experience of slide playing gleaned from the Martin Simpson "Slide Primer" CD.
Purchasing by mail order may seem a really bizarre way to acquire any instrument but I am one who is self conscious of playing in shops to audition instruments. It's not shyness, it's my perception of shop salespersons. I always forget that it's me who is doing them a favour. (I've had 38 years of playing to hone this point of view) Since I am not going to buy from them anyway, they are perhaps justified in this case. In what is a niche market, you cannot just go to any old shop to try out resos anyway. I found that out when I bought my Fylde mandolin.
So now it's Tri / single cone and brass / steel. Out comes the coin to spin! Seriously, thanks again for all of your advice.
Stevie.

[Deleted]

Stevie

Like you I trust of Fylde to build v good instruments.

My advice is to get a Busker Deco Tricone. I can play everything on a tricone that I can on a single cone, although the single cone is better for some songs. The Deco is dearer, but not THAT expensive for what it is then say a Busker Cannon. So get the dearer guitar first, then it's easier to justify to you or others getting a single cone later.

You can trust Busker guitars to be good and well set up straight out of the box.

Others will have good reasons to disagree but this is my 2pworth!

Best of success.

[clarke111]

Hi Guys,

Just reading through, its a very interesting thread!

Firstly I was extremley sceptial about the whole mail order business, however I need not have been, the service I have received from Busker guitars on both occasions has been outstanding, second to none.

I play predominately lap slide, I bought a tri cone first and loved it, it was perfect, warm, great sustain, a wonderful instument. So much so that I bought a single cone from Robin shortly after and WOW, I still love the tri cone but for me the steel bodied single cone is THE reso tone, I appreciate this is a matter of taste and the others will, quite rightly disagree, and that the guitars are designed to be different, but in my opinion that sigle cone/steel combo ticks all the boxes, sweet and lyrical when you play it softly, with a wonderful natural reverb, but really growls when you dig in to give that low down 'n dirty blues tone.... My advice would be, if you can only get one, get a 12 fret single cone, it will leave you smiling for days,.. then buy the tri cone!!!

Enjoy which ever you end up with!

Chris

[thebluesbear( al)]

Hi
i agree totally with the comments about busker guitars , ihave in my swag of resos a busker cannon and cannot wait to order another one.....i have put my busker up against my nationals other people who hear both have said wow

[Stevie]

Just a note to thank everyone for their valued advice and in particular Robin for his help and interest. I now have an MM Blues model and I'm really very pleased.

The decision between steel and brass was made by opening both sound clips at the same time but in different tabs and temporarily pausing each one. Unconventional but effective!

Cheers again, Stevie.