lap slide bars

[clarke111]

Hey Guys,

Just looking for peoples opinions on the best bars for lap slide. I have a square neck tricone (Busker) that is great, but I'm still deciding on the best bar, I seem to change my mind on a weekly basis!

I started using a Shubb SP 3 Railroad bar, then moved onto a domed top DB slide, I liked the feel of this so got hold of a lead filled crystal bar from Ian at DB, which is nice. I also tried a dunlop steel bullet however I wasn't impressed with the tonal quality.

I'm now back with the shubb because I find it the most comfortable to hold and accurate to play with in terms of hitting notes and hammer ons etc. However I would prefer it in solid stainless steel like the scheehorn, does anyone know of a bar like this I can pick up in the UK, or have any advice in general?... don't even get me started on my preferred bottleneck slides!!

Cheers

Chris

[fredkinbom]

Hi there,

As for bullet bars, I made a comparison video of some different bars last year (Broz-o-Phonic, Diamond Bottlenecks, Tribo-Tone...):



That will give you some idea of the tonal characteristics.

As for what works best for you, that is a very subjective matter. For one all-round great bar, I'd recommend the Tribo-Tone. They are fantastic - pricy, but worth it. They are much easier to hold on to than metal bullet bars.

If you're after a stainless steel "rail" bar, as with all lap steel accessories, shopping online from the US is your best bet. Before I switched to bullet bars, I used an E.G. Smith stainless steel bar. Cheaper than the Scheerhorn and many think better. They are quite hard to find these days though I think.

I hope that helps a little!

Fred

[Ian McWee]

....i told you you'd soon start a bar collection ;D....

Good to see you here Chris - talk again soon mate..

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com

[Michael Messer]

Hi Chris,

There are two types of bars for lap steel playing. The Hawaiian bullet and the 'Stevens' type bar. They are generically known as Stevens bars because they were the first and most known brand. Stevens style bars are Dunlop Lap Dawg, Scheerhorn steel bars, Schubb makes a whole range of bars....etc..

The Hawaiian bullet is generally considered to be the best and most maneuverable and versatile, but also the most difficult of the two types to master. The Stevens style bars are the most popular and have become THE tool for modern Dobro playing.

I would recommend spending time which both types and over a period of time deciding which one to go with. When I first started I used a bullet, then I changed to a Stevens for a while, and then I settled with a bullet and have stayed with for 23 years.

The bullet is very smooth and enables more accuracy with both forward and backward slant chords. The Stevens is easy to grip and lift off the strings, and therefore makes rapid hammer-ons and pull-offs easier than with a bullet. That is why most modern Dobro players use them.

There are three types of bullet worth testing. The regular steel/plated steel Hawaiian bullet - the best brands of these are Brozophonic, and King Slides are superb! (if you can find one). They are no longer made, but Ron at Frets.co.uk may still have a few. The second type is a glass one made by Diamond Slides, which are fantastic for certain applications. I have seen Debashish Bhattacharya use one to great effect. The third type is a new addition to the family - Tribotone Bar - these are Hawaiian bullets made of a very high-tech plastic and all I can tell you is that since I got mine in May 2007, I have used nothing else. They are very nice to use and although they are expensive, I would recommend trying one. Eric is the guy who makes them and his website is at www.tribotone.com/

Back to your question - I don't know of anyone in the UK making a bar like the Scheerhorn. If you want one, you have to get the real thing.

I hope that has been of some help...? If not it will certainly get us talking about bars and bullets!

Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

I think that Fred, Ian and me all replied to your question at the same time!

Shine On
Michael.

[clarke111]

Thanks for that guys,

I have, and am very happy with the diamond bottleneck lead filled bar, its fantastic, so thanks again to Ian, and yes you were right about the collection!! The shubb is good but does not have such a great tone! I do tend to change weekly at the moment as I said so next week I probably will be cursing the stevens style bar! Most people seem to agree that the bullet is best in the long run.

Thanks Fred, I have seen your demo and your playing in general on youtube, its great playing and has been a great help to me, keep up the good work!

I have now tried all the bars you have mentioned Michael, other than the tribotone, they do look great, I'm waiting for Eric to finish the new workshop so I can get hold of the K bar, its the same weight as the B bar I think but thicker which I prefer, again this will probably change!

Thanks for the help, it does seem that every lap slide player goes through tons of bars until they settle on one so I guess my collection will keep growing!

Now Ian about a new bottle neck!!! Lol..

Cheers

Chris

[jackstrat]

I think I'm developing a preference for the snub-nosed bars (railroad?)...I just find the bullet bars too hard to hold onto to be honest, although Ian at Diamond Bottlenecks really helped me with this by doing up a custom extra-long glass bullet bar, and it's just great...I tend to hold it like a biro and use it for single note stuff...

Another one that I like is the Shubb GS (Gary Swallows) model with the wooden grip...lightweight for comfort and speed but I reckon there's still pretty good density in the metal part for a decent tone...

Niall

[Michael Messer]

I am a bit unsure of new-fangled machines! Half-wood slide bars and extra big ones.... I think it is best to try and stick with the classic tools as they have been tried & tested for many years.

I see no reason to need a larger Hawaiian bullet than the standard size, unless you are playing a pedal steel guitar. The larger bullet on a six string guitar will be at first easier to hold, but in the long run it could slow you up as accuracy would be harder. Just my opinion

You are right - the only way to find out is to keep trying different ones. Scheerhorn, Brozophonic, Diamond, Tribotone (in two weights Medium & heavy) - that should be enough to give you an idea and for you to settle with one.

Having said that - I have dozens of them!!! More of a library of bars than a collection.

Shine On
Michael.

[Ian McWee]

Just to make you feel better about a growing bar collection.....does anyone here (Fred???) have access to a photograph posted on the Steel Guitar Forum by our own Basil Henriques a few months ago - it featured his collection of bars gathered over many years, and they were pictured on a wooden display stand that covered half of his wall space - truly fantastic ;D

Slide On!

Ian.

[jackstrat]

MM

I take your point about the tried and tested varieties for sure...and I think you've put it really well when you say that it's more about having a library than a collection...different bars work for different situations.... as do different guitars, strings, picks, amps and all that stuff (not to mention different hands!!).
Prior to about two years ago, I reckon I'd never even held a tonebar, so I'm still suffering from the 'child in the toy shop' syndrome..."I want that one..no I want that one there..can I have two of those..what does that one do?!!" I'm also figuring out by trial and error that some combinations of bar/guitar etc. just don't work at all...however, I'm loving the process of finding out!!!

Anyway, can anyone please tell me what kind of slide/bar Dave Gilmour uses? I've seen him on a DVD ('Remember that Night'...I think?!) playing a lapsteel with what looks like a long, heavy metal tube....i.e. it resembles a bottleneck-type, but he's using it like a tonebar...? Is it just a non-descript piece of tubing, or is it something more specialised? I'd love to find out.

Regards,
Niall

[Michael Messer]

Niall, you are right about trying as many as you can. For the first ten years or so of playing I bought every slide, bar, bullet, pick, guitar, recordings of slide guitar, etc...that I could find. I still do go through those phases sometimes. These days I think I am a little more choosy. I ought to take a photo like one Ian has described of Basil's slide collection. Watch this space! Any chance of seeing Basil's photo anyone>?

Shine On
Michael.

[clarke111]

Hey,

I can sympathise with Nial on the 'kid in a sweetshop' buying urges, I keep thinking the next one will be perfect, although I'm practising more and more whilst I'm working on the best combination which can't be a bad thing! I noticed recently on the Guitarist mag CD that Martain Harley was playing a stevens style bar on his wiessenborn and it sounded great, I guess it is all a matter of taste, and the fact that he is a great lap slide player, although I do take your point about the bullet bar being more versitile in the long run.

Chris

[fredkinbom]

Chris,

Thanks for the kind words! The good feedback I've gotten on youtube is very encouraging for me, so thank you!

You are very right about that the sound is very much in the hands of the player. This goes for guitars and it goes for tonebars too! You mention Martin Harley - he tried my Tribo-Tones (B and A weights) at the Frankfurt Musikmesse this year and was very curious about them, and he had like you say a standard Stevens bar, but he sure sounded very good with both (his comment on the Tribo-Tone was "different!" as far as I recall). It's easy to get gear-obsessed, but many people are not. I asked Xavier Rudd (who for sure has plenty of Weissenborns!) what bar he uses, and he had to ask his roadie! I think it was a Shubb SP-3 or similar.

Have fun in your search, and I second Michael's recommendation to try a Tribo-Tone!

Fred

[clarke111]

Hi Fred,

Thats no problem, keep up the good work! I think your right it is fairly easy to become gear obsessed and its the player that counts, and practise! Its interesting what you say about Xavier Rudd, and he can really play, but hey its still fun to experiment, if a little costly!!

I will certainly try the tribotone bars in the near future,

Cheers

Chris

[robn]

I'll certainly be making a call to Eric

I had a quick go with Michael's Tribo-tone bars a couple of weeks ago and was pleased that I could actually hang on to them - given the problem with my left hand - lovely tone!

Of necessity, I'm a bit of a Stevens style bar fan on my dobro. I have an SP2, which I like, but I prefer the sharp ends of the SP3 and flip the SP2 round to its "sharp" end for bluegrass dobro in GBDGBD. So far I've worn the plating off a cheap "Stevens"

I also have a "new fangled" Shubb GS (Garry Swallows). The tone is not as strong as the SP2 (it needs more weight) or the surface as smooth but for gigs (mic'd up) it is my preferred bar. I play bluegrass standing up, and have my dobro at quite an open angle slanting away from me to relax my wrists, so having that wood handle to hang on to is a Godsend.

I'm thinking of having a custom one made by Garry - just a little heavier and smoother than the Shubb version.

For seated playing and other tunings I'm looking forward to using a bullet style bar. And I think that the Tribo-tone would be perfect for one of my little lap guitars.

Robin