|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 16, 2008 10:36:02 GMT
I just received a new KING slide  Nice looking piece of kit except I'm very disapointed with the tone I'm getting. I have been strugling with an old socket ! But what a TONE.. HUGE SUSTAIN.. This new slide (KING) is supposed to be the same spec as Michaels, just not delivering the goods. Don't think it's my tecnique because the socket works fine. Maybe it's the weight of the socket that is helping. Not very practical as my finger only fits half way through. The tone must becoming from the heavy end where the rachet would plug in. Also : when playing slide on electric, would you guys use the same slide you would on your resos's or opt for a lighter weight ? Many thanks Paul |
|
|
|
Post by robn on Sept 16, 2008 11:23:41 GMT
Hi Paul, Judging by my experience, you can expect to end up with a large collection of slides as your playing career progresses, and they will probably drift in and out of vogue with you over the years. I started with heavy brass slides, as they were the easiest to get a full tone from. Now I primarily use thick green glass as it gives a cleaner tone than metal for my style of play, and it is way easier on the wrists. Another thing that I’ve noticed is that getting clean, strong tone with lighter slides and lighter strings is something that gradually develops over time. I’ve no idea what I’m doing differently now than say 2 years ago, but my ability to extract tone from a reso just keeps improving the more I play. However, if I hand the same guitar to Michael Messer (using the same picks and same slide) he can milk ten times the tone from the instrument that I can achieve  This is actually hugely encouraging – it means that I still have a long way to go – and that the slides I have are well up to the job (thanks to Ian at DB!) – I just need to play for another 20 years or so to develop my technique  So I would say – the King Slide you have most probably has the basic ingredients for great tone, but you need to keep working at it. Robin PS (I go a little lighter on electric) |
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 16, 2008 11:32:19 GMT
Hi Paul, King Slides were made in two sizes and I think you may have bought the smaller of the two? My slide is approx 70mm x 26mm - and I wear it on my third finger...like this....  The large size King Slides are pretty close in tone to my original. I do have a small King Slide too and I find it has a good tone. I sometimes use the smaller one as I can play different stuff with a smaller lighter weight slide. I also use glass slides for a different tone and feel. All the different materials & weights wil give something different. Robin's comments on the subject are spot on. Also, which Robin also points out - most of your tone and sound comes from you, not from the tools you are using. A heavy socket will give you a great tone. John Hammond uses a socket. Without seeing and hearing you play, it is a difficult conversation to have. I hope I have made some sense? However, if your new slide doesn't fit on your finger......It ain't much good! Shine On Michael |
|
|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 16, 2008 11:34:20 GMT
Thought as much, man driving the thing !
I got a light weight KING too which is actually giving me brighter tone which really supprised me. Many more years practice would seem the key here.
Cheers Robin.
|
|
|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 16, 2008 11:55:22 GMT
These two KING slide's are both 60mm long.. to short as my finger keeps creep out the end.
Not good as your DVD mentions this Michael.
They are both 26mm wide with 22mm bore.
Shame about the length !
Paul
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 16, 2008 12:27:56 GMT
Not good as your DVD mentions this Michael. .....shakeyjake, what do I say in my DVD about this? If your King Slide is too small, maybe Frets.co.uk will have a large one and will change it......just a thought. Shine On Michael |
|
|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 16, 2008 12:41:13 GMT
Only think they come in 60mm length Mike ?
The lighter one has the KING logo inside too but is rusting inside. Obviously not Stainless like the heavier one.
The light one is also pitted and has a nasty scratch too. That ones going back !
Paul
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 16, 2008 13:07:57 GMT
They were definitely made in two lengths, but I do know production ceased a few years ago. Maybe someone on this forum has one they don't use? (I do have a 70mm stainless KS, but I would never part with it as I keep it as a spare)
As for whether or not they are all stainless, I can't really comment as I was nothing to do with this product after the original design stage. LRC no longer exists and sadly the man who made the King Slides passed away a few years ago.
I hope you get one you like
Shine On
Michael.
|
|
|
|
Post by jonnybees on Sept 16, 2008 20:04:33 GMT
this is quite interesting. I wear my slide on the little finger, and for years I thought the 70mm long and 30 outside dia were too big... til i developed (or was shown!) a way to keep it in place with the other fingers while damping the strings. However I do have smaller hands and the porcelain slides I now use for the reso have a slightly smaller internal dia which helps my pinky to bend and hold the slide firm without any other support.
For my small stella for "normal" acoustic slide i use a 22mm o.d 20 mm i.d x 60mm brass which is just perfect.
I used to work in a non ferrous metal stockist so had a pick of various sizes. I bought a full length and got it cut to 60mm long all the way down so I ve got a whole box full. If anyone wants to try one I'd be interested what people with smaller fingers like me think of it, as so far Im the only person Ive ever met with this size slide. I can put one f.o.c. in an envelope [unless the whole world & their mother want one!] if anyone has the same problem I did back then.
|
|
|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 16, 2008 21:04:04 GMT
i noticed how Michael dampens with his index and appears to support the slide with his
middle finger.
These KING slides are pretty nice.
I like to wear mine on the ring finger, this 60mm is exactly the same lenght as my
knuckle to finger tip.
It needs to just start to slip over the knuckle so I can grip it when my finger kinks. Trouble is my finger tip is just peeping through. That extra 10mm would be just perfect.
|
|
|
|
Post by tark on Sept 17, 2008 1:21:15 GMT
Not to contradict anything anyone has said and yes technique has a lot to do with slide tone, but I think generally a heavier, harder slide will give you a fuller tone. It's all about inertia, you want the string not to vibrate at the point where it contacts the slide. The internal resonance and damping factor of the material the slide is made of also have an effect.
I have one of the King stainless slides and although its OK and works well on electric I prefer a Dunlop Mudslide 266 which fits nicely on my little finger and isn't too bulky. The Mudslide weighs 83gms while the King is 68.5gms.
I have tried the porcelain slides, but they are just a little too clumsy and they chip very easily, which the Mudslide does not.
I think the outside curve of the slide has an effect on tone too. Tube slides with a large diameter seem better to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by steverino on Sept 17, 2008 5:43:05 GMT
I agree with tark on all counts. The slide forms a temporary termination of the speaking length of the string. The heavier the slide, the greater the impedance mismatch between string and slide. The higher this ratio, the slower the energy is lost to the termination point.
I have been experimenting with a thick wall machined steel tube section, an extension element for a screw jack device used to support a grand piano pinblock from underneath while the tuning pins are driven in from above . I polished up its exterior with some 1500 grit sandpaper. It enables noticeably longer sustain than the medium weight brass slide I had been using, though my hand becomes tired after a short period as it is quite heavy. The slow vibrato effects made possible by forcing the hand to control the heavy mass are interesting though, in addition to the long sustain.
|
|
|
|
Post by shakeyjake on Sept 17, 2008 8:41:26 GMT
I'm very happy with the tone from the KING after spending an evening with it.
A 70mm with it's extra mass will be just perfect, if I ever find one that is !
Heres hoping
Paul
|
|
|
|
Post by Michael Messer on Sept 17, 2008 9:20:03 GMT
This is all getting quite technical, but basically I agree with the comments about weight & mass. One of the advantages that I find with a heavy slide is the vibrato works like a pendulum - once it starts it is self-perpetuating. Also the tone from a heavy slide is better. My slide weighs just under 4.5 ounces.....whatever that is in Euros!
Having said that, I understand the advantages of using a lighter slide and slides made of other materials. Each has its own quality and tone.
As much as it is great to have the perfect tools for the job, I believe very strongly that more than 50% of your tone comes from you and not your slide.
It is an interesting subject and one that should be discussed in depth, especially on a slide guitar forum!
Shine On
Michael
|
|
|
|
Post by growler on Sept 17, 2008 11:04:09 GMT
Michael
I tend to agree with your comments, They are funny things slides , we all have several of them lying about in our quest for the perfect slide. Personally I find myself going in and out of favour with them, all of a sudden I give up on a slide I have been using for awhile, then out of the blue try another and stick with this one for awhile.
I can pin down two that I only use now Ians ' Mike Dowling' and the King slide, looking at the version you are using on your video, mine must be the lighter version of the two, all the same , two great slides
Regards Growler
|
|
