Earliest (no suffix) metal Triolians

[1928triolian]

This is mainly for Michael and Mark Makin.

I never had the chance to play one of these earliest metal Triolians (only 100 in existence?), but from the very few pics on the net they look to me like they have bigger necks than later Polychromes and Walnuts, and V-shaped too, very similar to the necks on early wood body Triolians with Tricone headstock.
Also, they look like 3 pieces body construction. Am I right?
Are they somehow different sounding instruments than later Trios, or actually are they identical?

yours 1928

[Mark Makin]

Hello 1928
Well spotted!
We're of the opinion that all early metal Triolians were 3 piece german silver bodies. O 183 and O 207 are german silver. It seems that early P series Triolians up to at least 243P are also German silver. The walnuts are steel by at least 168W so they COULD be built slightly later.
It seems likely that the first bodies of single cones were silver and then steel and then brass. The different ranges of Triolian COULD have been built at the same time and not following one another as Bobs list would suggest. In this case, a walnut paint job would get a W, a bakelite neck would get an A etc.. but the bodies would be the same batch.
With the number totals of the O series running through the early P series to 243 or so- we have a possibility of around 500 german silver three piece metal Triolians.
Interesting, eh?

[1928triolian]

Hello Mark,

thanks for sharing!

Yes, VERY fascinating and interesting.... german silver 3 pc bodies!

here'a a link for two early metal Triolians: the second one is a no suffix numbered; not sure about the first. www.provide.net/~cfh/triolian.html

I heard an early P Triolian (lower than 243), and it sounded heavenly.


1928

[Michael Messer]

Hi 1928,

Your username makes me smile every time I see it ;D

This is a very interesting area of new research that we are only just starting to understand and Mark has answered your question pretty much as I would have. Mark & I have had a few conversations about this recently.

Shine On
Michael

[1928triolian]

May 25, 2008 15:39:12 GMT Michael Messer said:

Hi 1928,

Your username makes me smile every time I see it ;D

Hi Michael,

I'm glad you somehow appreciate my username
The problem is, my 1928 wood body Triolian still is one of my favourite guitars!

Please keep us posted when you and Mark have some news from the German Silver Triolians Planet!

1928

[SH]

Hello Mark & Michael,

It was very interesting to know that there were some German silver Triolians !

There is one for sale, German silver Style O with S2407.
Do you think it can be German silver for such rather later serial no. ?

I'm very curious, no intention to buy it at the moment though.

Satoru

[1928triolian]

May 24, 2008 19:54:05 GMT Mark Makin said:

Hello 1928

We're of the opinion that all early metal Triolians were 3 piece german silver bodies. O 183 and O 207 are german silver. It seems that early P series Triolians up to at least 243P are also German silver. The walnuts are steel by at least 168W so they COULD be built slightly later.
It seems likely that the first bodies of single cones were silver and then steel and then brass. The different ranges of Triolian COULD have been built at the same time and not following one another as Bobs list would suggest. In this case, a walnut paint job would get a W, a bakelite neck would get an A etc.. but the bodies would be the same batch.
With the number totals of the O series running through the early P series to 243 or so- we have a possibility of around 500 german silver three piece metal Triolians.
Interesting, eh?

Hi Mark and Michael!

I'm re-opening this interesting thread, just to point out that Triolian 0200 that I've recently bought is a 100% steel guitar, including top, back, sides, coverplate, handrest and tailpiece too...
I will try to post some photos of this guitar, meanwhile you could see it here:
www.provide.net/~cfh/triolian.html
It's the second one showed (as "1930" Triolian, while it's actually a 1929, right?)

yours 1928

[Michael Messer]

Hi 1928,

This is an area of research that is still in discussion. A lot of changes to both metals and serial numbers appears to have happened in a very short space of time, and at this point in time there is no difinitive answer. My Polychrome Triolian is 0195 (five numbers before yours). Where the paint has chipped off on the sides and the coverplate, I can see patches of rust, but on the front & back of the guitar, there is no rust, just grey metal. Both the grey metal and the rusty metal are magnetic, which leads me to think that some kind of coating may have been applied to the front and back, but not the sides. As I said, this is an area of research that is still unfolding.

I think we should keep this thread open and keep discussing this subject, as it may bring something to the surface which will help our research to move forward.

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I have a Polychrome Triolian, serial no. 565P that is all steel except for the coverplate and tailpiece.

The coverplate is copper - as far as I can tell - the paint has worn off it really easily - especially the handrest.
The tailpiece - well, I dont know ! Its not steel. When I got it, the guitar body front (top+coverplate) hand been painted over, covering serious wear to the original polychrome finish on the front. The tailpiece had been painted over too. Not liking the non-original paint, I managed to get most of it off with paint stripper (carefully, I might add !!!) but bizarrely, the polychrome finish seemed more resistant (luckily !) EXCEPT it was coming off the coverplate way easier - so I had to stop using the stripper on it. I removed all the paint of the tailpiece (expecting to see nickel plating) - but copper instead ! However, scratching the copper seems to reveal shinier grey metal underneath. German Silver ?
Last point about this guitar (which may make the above reasonably relevant) is that the body has the slot in it for a bakelite neck (I know cause I saw it with the neck off, for a reset !) The "hole" had a metal strip soldered across it (for support for a wooden neck) and the polychrome finish was applied AFTER this - thus I think this guitar never had a bakelite neck on it so must have been a later bakelite-neck-intended body. It is a 2 piece body though.
See pic of soldered strip :
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/snakehips81/PolychromeTriolianCutout.jpg

My Style "O" (S618) has the square cut headstock slots, 2 piece brass body but with German Silver coverplate and - (I swear I'm sure, I've checked with deep scratches on the underside !)) a German Silver tailpiece. Both this Style "O" 's GS coverplate and an earlier Style "O" I once briefly owned (very brief - I sent it back to the US dealer as it had many undisclosed neck issues - will try and find serial no.). It also had a GS coverplate and square-cut headstock slots. See :
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/snakehips81/StyleOcoverplateNatcone001.jpg

Both coverplates had a strange cutouts under the handrests, by the 1st and 6th strings, see pic :
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/snakehips81/StyleOcoverplateunderside.jpg
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/snakehips81/StyleOCoverplate1004.jpg
Whats all that about ?
Perhaps GS coverplates "re-cycled" after early attempts at attaching handrests eg. with rivets, before deciding on soldering ?
Someone suggested they might have been intended as mandolin/tenor guitar coverplates ?

Sorry, not much of this is to do with very early metal bodied Triolians but I thought it might be interesting anyway !

You stated a Triolian with the paint wearing off showed grey metal underneath - could that not be an anti-rust coating - eg zinc ?
See pic of my other triolian body, after I removed non-original paint job (also, ex-bakelite neck - no serial no. unfortunately) :
i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/snakehips81/BakeliteTriolian3.jpg