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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2009 22:42:14 GMT
Hi Mark, thanks a lot for you fast reply. This is the best info I ever got on the Estralita model. I still can not believe why Bob Brozman rates them as not very desirable in his book. This guitar has character beyond words and I haven't played a better woodbody National yet.
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 29, 2009 9:37:40 GMT
I agree with you. When the book was written (now 16 years ago!) I think we were all (including Bob) very shiny-metal centric. These wood models from other manufacturers were seen as just marketing opportunities as the National business grew. At the time we would only tolerate products directly from the Dopyera Brothers so the only wood body that was worth consideration was the wooden Triolian! I know in recent years that Bob is a fan of Kay built instruments, the El Trovador and (particularly) the Aragon. I think we only knew of one or two Estralitas at the time of writing and I don't think those had been personally verified. As I explained to various people at the beginning of this thread who seemed to think it was an expensive waste of time to restore my Estralita, it is a very different animal to the Trojan and I have to agree that if it were similar to a Trojan, there are so many Trojans around, why would I waste my money?
As Bob knows well, he was a fan of the metal bodied (preferably Tricone) Dopyera resonators almost exclusively. In the early days of researching these things, Bob regarded the 'National Steel' as one of the last great examples of American craftsmanship married with the first attempts at mass production. In this respect, I agree with him entirely. Subsequent products from National up through the 1930s do NOT exemplify this same attitude. You can make the distinction that after the move of the National Company to Chicago in the mid 1930s, ALL instruments, 14 fret Style Os, wooden bodies, electrics, archtops were products off an assembly line - the 1920s instruments all have a craftsman antique feel to them.
I have to say that I was not as black and white as Bob was. I always had a secret love for everything that the company threw out even up to the 60s - wacky Glenwoods and Supros included!
Best Mark
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2009 13:40:48 GMT
Thanks again, Mark. Is there a way to post a photo or two of my Estralita here? I don't know how to upload pics.
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 29, 2009 13:57:23 GMT
If you set up a free account at somewhere like photobucket.com you can load the pictures there. You then have a URL address for the picture to place it into Michaels forum - the pictures are not held on the forum which is why you can't post them direct. When you go to the message board on the forum you will see an 'image' icon. This will give you [/img] on the message. Place your URL address directly between the two boxes and it should work. Best of luck.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2009 4:00:38 GMT
Thanks, Mark. Here we go. 1936 National Estralita (SN: N 079)
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Post by thebluesbear( al) on Apr 30, 2009 6:36:45 GMT
total work of art!!!!!!!!!!1
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 9:13:58 GMT
Hi again, Mark. I just wanted to let you know for your records that another vintage Estralita (N100) has popped up. It's owner notified me on the Vintage Nationals Pickin' Parlor a while ago. Cheers Willie
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 8, 2011 9:24:49 GMT
Hi Willie John (Greenbadge171) has already contacted us and we've given him what we can. It needs some help (like mine did) but hopefully it will survive. It is interesting to me because it is still carrying a "sieve" coverplate at number 100 whereas mine is a "chcken foot" at 126. We're narrowing the gap a little bit! Best regards Mark
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 14:36:43 GMT
Simple and beautiful. No shame in loving a wood body National, be it Trojan, Estralita, Rosita, Aragon, El Trovador, or whatever. It's apples and oranges. An apple is not always and only better than an orange. You can like oranges better, or you can love both without contradiction.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2011 17:51:53 GMT
the tailpieces are different too - are they both original? TT (addit) - fabulous guitar (droool)
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 8, 2011 19:14:17 GMT
Hi Deuce The trapeze is a typical Harmony type, the National tulip-type and even the Dobro "bottle opener" type were all used on various instruments like this. I guess they used whatever was plentiful in stock!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 4:26:33 GMT
Hi Mark, The tailpiece is the same type as used on many Kays (Kay Kraft Venetians etc.) too. Is there a slight chance that at least some of the Estralitas were made by Kay??? I have often wondered about the market value of the Estralita model. I have two older copies - 1998 and 2008 - of the "Official Vintage Guitar Price Guide" . They listed this model at $900 - $1.100 (1998) and $700 - $850 (2008). Crazy! Best Willie
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 9, 2011 8:03:28 GMT
Hi Willie It was always suspected that the Estralita and the El Trovador were Kay instruments and the Rosita, Trojan, Havanas were Harmony built.
The El Trovador was certainly designed and produced by Kay for about a year in 1933 BUT after an argument about supply, it was discontinued by Kay and immediately taken on by Harmony for the last few instruments in early 1934. The fingerboard pattern that Harmony used on the subsequent Estralitas was initiated on these Trovadors. Consequently people assume the details apply the other way as well and that therefore Kay built some Estralitas. Not so.
I have to agree with you entirely about the rareity and amazingly low regard that these are held in. I think it is purely because they NEVER come up that people have no idea that they exist at all. It was not helped by the fact that Bob Brozman was totally dismissive of any of these wood instruments from the mid 1930s in his book. If it wasn't an El Trovador or an Aragon - it had no value. I certainly would not pay any attention to these so-called "Blue book" bibles with regard to pricing. The last one I looked at quotes Bob Brozman saying "these wood instruments produce a mushy sound".
I always hate the fact that when I talk about them everybody immediately talks about an NRP ESTRALITA!! NRP do not build ANYTHING remotely similar to a 1934 Estralita. Best Mark
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 8:28:55 GMT
In a way, perhaps the lack of respect for these guitars is a good thing for a collector. Although I'd probably never ever find one, should I find one, I may have a chance of buying it! TT
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Post by Mark Makin on Jun 9, 2011 9:43:16 GMT
Hi Deuce I certainly agree about collecting things that are off other people's radar. You will have to fight to get a good deal with a Duolian, a style 0, a Triolian or a Triplate BUT deals are out there. I have always maintained that "Knowledge is power" - you have to know what you're looking at when the deal arrives - you have to have ALL the knowledge in your head - there is often not time to run home for the "book". In the last 3 years I have picked up off Ebay :
a 1927 Triolian Polychrome Tenor guitar a 1941 National Dynamic Lap steel and Amplifier a 1942 Supro Collegian Mandolin a 1948 Gibson built National Aristocrat Jazz archtop and the Estralita
TOTAL bill for all six items -- £1400 plus shipping.
I think a lot of people scan ebay listings and pass on things they "think" they have seen. They didn't LOOK properly.
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