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Post by fredkinbom on May 23, 2008 0:58:27 GMT
A heads-up for this thread that I posted in the Notecannons section about a 1930s National Estralita restored by Mike Lewis at Fine Resophonic. Fred |
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Post by Mark Makin on May 23, 2008 9:26:42 GMT
Hello Fred
As you've already jumped the gun with the appearance of this guitar - I'll fill you in with my comments.
I found this on Ebay for $200. As you say it was a wreck - it was also badly photographed. Two reasons why people would normally avoid the instrument. It also looks similar to a run-of-the-mill Trojan.
If you're going to find these deals - you MUST know what you're looking at. There's no substitute for background knowledge.
As you say, they are RARE - this is only the 5th one to turn up. Most people think Estralitas are something NRP dreamt up! They were built as a replacement for the El Trovador in 1934 so they have the same characteristics, mahogany, binding round the coverplate etc and special fingerboard markers. They were nearly as expensive as Style 0s in 1934 coming in at $55. The larger body shell made it useful for orchestral accompanists.
The second factor after knowing what you've got - is knowing where to take it. As you are aware and Michael Messer and I KEEP saying - Mike Lewis is the ONLY choice.
You made one mistake in your appraisal of Mike, Fred - he is not "A" first class craftsman for resophonics - he is "THE" first class craftsman.
Best
Mark
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Post by Bill Stig on May 23, 2008 13:28:51 GMT
Congratulations Mark Talking of Estaralitas, I tried two of the NRP Estralita Deluxes in Frailers guitar shop a couple of days ago. Both had come into the shop on the same day and were identical with the same strings on both instruments. Yet one sounded so much better than the other, so much so that I found it difficult to put the good one down and then rushed home to see what guitars I could sell to raise the cash. Doesn't look like I could afford it though. If Mark's Estralita is anywhere as good this new NRP one, I'd be even more jealous than I am already  Incidentally, there's a good interview with Mark Makin here: www.vintagenationals.com/wordpress/Bill |
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Post by Mark Makin on May 23, 2008 13:41:54 GMT
I'll let you know when I see it Bill - at the moment Fred can tell you more than I can as it's still in Paris!!
Best
Mark
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Post by fredkinbom on May 23, 2008 14:14:32 GMT
Bill, I have not played an NRP Estralita Deluxe myself, but I have heard one played at "close range" at an unamplified gig in a small venue, and it did not strike me as a guitar that would suit me and the music I make (something that goes for most biscuit bridge resos, so it is not a criticism of the guitar's quality, it's just my personal taste). Of course guitars sound differently depending on room acoustics, and a fair comparison can only be made side by side, but Mark's 1934 Estralita sounds simply gorgeous - in my opinion and to my taste, much more intriguing than the NRP, and its sound is warm and rich. In my limited experience, the finest sounding biscuit bridge reso I have come across. So, I think you may go ahead and be jealous! Fred |
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Post by Mark Makin on May 23, 2008 15:52:53 GMT
Heres a pic from September last year -  and heres the latest. Clever isn't he?  |
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Post by tark on May 27, 2008 16:41:55 GMT
Hi Mark,
From the picture it looks like Mike has done an astounding job of restoring that guitar and it's great to see one of the original Nationals brought back to life. However I can't help wondering how it makes financial sense as I'm sure Mike's services, or the services of anyone capable of that level of restoration, do not come cheap. I suppose even a restored 1930's Estralita (as compared to original mint) is worth quite a bit. But I would guess that if you just wanted an Estralita to play it might be cheaper to buy a new NRP guitar. Or am I wrong?
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Post by Mark Makin on May 27, 2008 20:43:39 GMT
Hello Tark
I know I'm going over old ground - but from my perspective of enjoying and researching National guitars for 40+ years - there is no such thing as a NEW National.
My reasons for rescuing this instrument, as I have said elsewhere, is because so few of them have surfaced (5 to date). When you consider I have been surrounded with 1920's, 1930's Nationals in wood, german silver, brass and steel since 1967 - why would I have a NEED for a completely unrelated "New" instrument that bears no relation to an Estralita except for the name?
The same reasoning applies to Mike Lewis's restoration of Michael Messers Havana 12 string. In that particular case it is UNIQUE.Would Michael have been better served by buying a new 12 string and putting the Havana in the bin?
Michael Lewis has been a close friend of mine since 1971. He started his interest in Nationals after seeing mine and together we have discussed, measured and fiddled with Nationals for 35+ years. It has always been valuable to both of us when we are in a position to turn something up that is rare, that we can not only rescue it but learn from it. Michael had never seen an example of EITHER of these instruments until we found them for him to look at.
We have learnt a number of things about the construction of this particular rare beast - it is an auditorium sized body, the sound is different, the sides are constructed differently from wood that is only half the thickness of a Trojan. The wood is Mahogany ply, not maple etc. etc..
This process is nothing to do with economics but our continuing lifetime involvement with and investigation of Nationals.
To partially agree with your premise - there would most certainly be no economic value whatever in rebuilding a Trojan, for instance, because if you find a wreck of an instrument today - there will certainly be a mint example along tomorrow at a very reasonable price - the world is not short of Trojans!
Consequently the premise for this "restoration" programme is that it really only applies to instruments that MUST be saved.
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Post by Michael Messer on May 27, 2008 21:08:04 GMT
National Estralitas are extremely rare guitars. I agree with Mark that certain instruments must be saved.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Colin McCubbin on May 28, 2008 3:55:37 GMT
Re "Michael Messer's 12 string"
Just to set the record straight, another of our good friends, Lee Holliday saw it on ebay, covered head to toe in goldpaint and looking like a piece of junk. He emailed me about it, and I decided it looked 'real' enough to bid on...
Shortly after I 'won' and it arrived here in Canada, Michael Messer visited and, with his brother Alan helped me take the pictures for, and Michael wrote the first version of the site that became notecannons. Michael fell in love with the guitar, picking it up and playing it all the time that he was here.
At that point I had two options, to send it to Marc Schoenberger in the US, or to Mike Lewis in Paris for restoration. When the Notecannons site was finally uploaded and became an entity on the web I gave the guitar to Michael with my thanks and best wishes, secure in the knowledge that between him and Mike Lewis it would be treated with respect, and, sure enough the instrument has turned out to be as spectacular as we all dreamed it might be.
To see it transformed by Mike Lewis so well, and to subsequently hear Michael play it on a visit to the UK justified my decision that it couldn't pass into better hands!
Aloha nui loa...
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Post by robbie on May 28, 2008 6:13:58 GMT
A kind gesture indeed colin
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Post by Bill Stig on May 28, 2008 18:34:14 GMT
I think Tark has raised an interesting, if controversial, point.
I mentioned playing an NRP Estralita earlier in this thread. It struck me that it sounded very much like a modern guitar, a bit like a Lowden with a cone added. It was almost too perfect. I can't imagine Mark's guitar sounding like that. There's a lot to be said for the individual character of the sound of vintage instruments, something that's very real.
National Resophonic seem to make a point of reproducing National instruments as close to the originals as possible. With the Estralita being such a rare guitar, is the NRP Estralita similar to the National Estralita or is it, as I suspect, the same in name only?
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Post by 1928triolian on May 28, 2008 20:01:04 GMT
I mentioned playing an NRP Estralita earlier in this thread. It struck me that it sounded very much like a modern guitar, a bit like a Lowden with a cone added. It was almost too perfect. I can't imagine Mark's guitar sounding like that. There's a lot to be said for the individual character of the sound of vintage instruments, something that's very real. National Resophonic seem to make a point of reproducing National instruments as close to the originals as possible. With the Estralita being such a rare guitar, is the NRP Estralita similar to the National Estralita or is it, as I suspect, the same in name only? Hi Bill, I just can't see why Mark Makin's 1934 Estralita, after the great job of Mike Lewis, shouldn't sound perfect.  I understand what you are saying about NRP Estralita sounding "almost too perfect": bright tone, a lot of volume and treble response, great impact. In one word, "modern". I've owned one of these, I liked it until I played a wood body Triolian. It was a revelation: THAT was a superbly sweet sounding guitar, and the tone was full and wonderfully balanced. That was the difference, but that's what makes a great guitar different from a simply good one. As for the vintage Estralitas/modern Estralitas... no connection. Vintage is mahogany, 14 frets, different body shape. Modern is poplar, 12 frets. Also it should be pointed out that Estralitas were not made by National (except for the metal parts, as the cone etc.) and had no neck-stick construction. The only wood body entirely made by National is the '28/'29 Triolian, neck-stick construction included of course. 1928 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2009 23:49:06 GMT
Hi Mark, Pascal Mesnier suggested that I contact you about the Estralita model. I am the ultra proud owner of # N 079. My guitar does not seem to have been catalogued by anyone yet. I have been looking for another Estralita and tried to gather information about this model for many years but have not found a single one. They seem to be among the rarest of all Nationals. How did I get mine? A friend of mine found it on ebay.com ca. 12 years ago and it eventually ended up with me. Initially I was not at all aware of the treasure that I had acquired. I would have posted a photo of my Estralita but don't know how to do it. But you can see a photo here: pickinparlor.vintagenationals.com/_1936-National-Estralita/photo/3466213/51645.html . I would be more than happy to hear your opinion about who built my guitar - Kay or Harmony. Of course I will provide more info about this guitar if needed. It is in unbelievable condition, sounds wonderful and after the necessary set up work plays like a perfect new guitar. |
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Post by Mark Makin on Apr 28, 2009 15:32:34 GMT
Nice to hear from you. The Estralita was made by Harmony as a 14 fret replacement for the El Trovador. The El Trovador was originally built by Kay, but was discontinued by that company in 1933. It was taken over by the Harmony company with slight differences - scale length, f hole position etc. The main difference was the addition of the fingerboard pattern with the various shapes and the star. This was devised by Harmony for use on their first archtop guitar made in 1933 - the Cremona. When, National shifted to 14 fret instruments in 1934, the El Trovador vanished and the Estralita was the result. They made a deep bodied instrument and added extra space at the bottom end to keep the large sounding 12 fret sound. It was devised as an 'Orchestra' model for dance bands.
Most people confuse them with Trojans but they are very rare. At present the list is:
N004 - black ESTRALIDA logo
N005
N017
N026 - red ESTRALITA logo
N041
N079 - red logo
N126 - red logo -Chicken feet plate
N141 - Chicken feet plate
There is some confusion over the name Estralida / Estralita. The first instruments have a black and gold logo with the name spelt as ESTRALIDA (or at least we think so because N005 and N017 have logos missing!!) Mine (N126) has the red logo like yours with the Correct?? spelling.
As I mentioned further back in this thread, mine has a chicken feet cover so it must be somewhere in late 1935/6. If they have only reached N126 by this time from 1934 - then there can't be many more than a couple of hundred at most.
They sold for $55 when they were new, a Duolian was $27 and a Style O was around $65.
Best
Mark
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