Lyrics and words generally…

[richclough]

Hi all,

Something we don’t talk about much on the forum is lyrics.

I’ve recently got my hands on a copy of ‘The book of American Negro Poetry’ (which was first issued in the 1930s, hence the now questionable title) and I’m enjoying working my way through it.

This is by Paul Laurence Dunbar (1872 –1906) and I don’t know if it’s ever been set to music, but there’s already a song there I think…


Seen my lady home las’ night,
Jump back, honey, jump back.
Hel’ huh han’ an’ sque’z it tight,
Jump back, honey, jump back.
Hyeahd huh sigh a little sigh,
Seen a light gleam f’om huh eye,
An’ a smile go flittin’ by⁠—
Jump back, honey, jump back.

Hyeahd de win’ blow thoo de pine,
Jump back, honey, jump back,
Mockin’-bird was singin’ fine,
Jump back, honey, jump back.
An’ my hea’t was beatin’ so,
When I reached my lady’s do’,
Dat I couldn’t ba’ to go⁠—
Jump back, honey, jump back.

Put my ahm aroun’ huh wais’,
Jump back, honey, jump back.
Raised huh lips an’ took a tase,
Jump back, honey, jump back.
Love me, honey, love me true?
Love me well ez I love you?
An’ she answe’d, “’Cose I do”—
Jump back, honey, jump back.


Here’s one of my favourite lines ever. It’s from John Martyn’s ‘Go down easy’…

‘You curl around me
Like a fern in the spring’


Please share anything you’d like to…

[Michael Messer]

Rich, this is a great idea for a thread!

Forum members, please feel free to post any song lyrics, including your own if you want to share them.

This is a wonderful message to get us started, just a few lines from one of the greatest songwriters.

One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain
One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain
So hit me with music, hit me with music now, yeah
Hit me with music, hit me with music now
Bob Marley - Trenchtown Rock

Trenchtown Rock was written by Bob Marley in 1971. The original single version was produced by the legendary Lee Scratch Perry and released on his Tuff Gong Records label. The greatest recording of this song is on Bob Marley & The Wailers "Live" album, recorded in July 1975 at the Lyceum in London. The lyrics are about Marley’s hometown, Trenchtown, Kingston, Jamaica, and the rich music and culture that it produced throughout the 1960s and beyond. This upbeat rocksteady song touches on how music makes Bob feel, and calls for peace amid the tumultuous environment of Kingston in the early 1970s. It has been referenced by many writers and musicians.

An interesting thing about songwriting is that it is not poetry as such. Songs are often written to a melody and rhythm and to sit on top of music, therefore a song often doesn't make great reading, it has to be listened to in context. This is common across all genres of music. I have discussed this with many writers and most are of the same opinion that their lyrics have to be heard, rather than read. Sometimes it is good to read the lyrics to fully understand what is being said, but then those words need to be heard, not read.

Shine On
Michael

[mitchfit]

^^^^
very true, it doesn't have to be poetry. but some of it is. one of the great songwriters of our times below, IMO.

read an interview way, way back in the day where he said he would [most often] play the song accompaniment on his guit and then start humming the notes for the lyrics. then would start adding oohs and aahs and various consonant sounds to narrow down the word line into word "sounds" that went with/conveyed his idea of what the feel of the tune should be.

[IE: think "cut him till he cried out" in "The Boxer"]

then it would all get boiled down into the finished lyrical words afterward. i'm guessing most people use the reverse order-starting with the words first then building around them like richclough suggested in his post.

i don't think there are any SET guidelines, the end product will show if order matters or not.

IT SURE WORKED FOR HIM!!!



mitchfit

[archtopeddy]

Thanks for starting this thread, I love lyrics.  And I think Bob Marley is one the best lyricsts in the later half of the 20th century. With simple words, he hit deep. Deeper than just the words, he brought his whole culture to bear. Personally, while I prefer the Jamacian rocksteady period (66-68), there is no denying Marley's unquestionable contribution. He molded a personal message that started in Trenchtown, and by the time he died, transformed it into a global-level world message. The great Jamaican-born, British-based poet Linton Kwesi Johnson wrote insightfully about this transition.

While I could find nearly endless examples of Marley lyrics (and by the way, I also feel Jimi Hendrix was another amazing lyrcist), I want to share a song with you by neither, and maybe perhaps a surprising choice: 1970s Canadian band Skylark.  I beiieve this shows, at times, lyrics can stand alone -- even without the music.

Shall I Fail — D. Edwards, C. Borsman

If I sing to deaf ears
If I smile to the blind
If I give my warmth to the unfeeling

Shall I fail — shall I fail?

[Michael Messer]

This is a lovely thread.

And to quote Paul Simon, who I agree is a master songwriter.... "The Mississippi Delta is shining like a National Guitar...." ...Damn I wish I had written that line!

Bob Marley was almost a prophet, in fact he was because he spoke the truth to his listeners.

Redemption Song

Old Pirates, yes, they rob I.
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I from the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong,
by the hand of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation, triumphantly.

Won't you help to sing these songs of freedom?
Cause all I ever had, ... redemption songs, redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets, while we stand aside and look?
Ooh, some say it's just a part of it. We've got to fulfill the book.

Won't you help to sing these songs of freedom?
Cause all I ever had, ... redemption songs, redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets, while we stand aside and look?
Ooh, some say it's just a part of it. We've got to fulfill the book.

Won't you help to sing these songs of freedom?
Cause all I ever had, ... redemption songs, redemption songs.
Bob Marley (1980)



Shine On
Michael

[bonzo]

Saying the lyrics generally work best when sung may I recommend Lorraine Elison singing 'Stay with me baby' as and interpretation of some lyrics brought to life by the singer. Been listening to it for over 50 years, it still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up! We're lucky to be in a time when we can access and discover lyrics pretty much from Elizabethan times. Crazy isn't it!

[tomgiemza]

When it comes down to lyrics, Randy Newman is my favourite songwriter. He can write a song about anything and keep it light even  when he's touching the most important matters.

[Michael Messer]

I don't have a favourite songwriter as there are many writers from all genres whose work I love and admire, and whose work has inspired my own writing.

This is a great piece of writing and a stunning performance

Respect Yourself - Staple Singers - written by Luther Ingram & Max Rice

If you disrespect anybody that you run in to
How in the world do you think anybody's s'posed to respect you
If you don't give a heck 'bout the man with the bible in his hand, y'all
Just get out the way, and let the gentleman do his thing
You the kind of gentleman that want everything your way, yeah
Take the sheet off your face, boy, it's a brand new day

Respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself
If you don't respect yourself
Ain't nobody gonna give a good cahoot, na na na na
Respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself

If you're walking 'round think'n that the world owes you something 'cause you're here
You goin' out the world backwards like you did when you first come here yeah
Keep talkin' bout the president, won't stop air pollution
Put your hand on your mouth when you cough, that'll help the solution
Oh, you cuss around women and you don't even know their names, no
Then you're dumb enough to think that'll make you a big ol' man

Respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself
If you don't respect yourself
Ain't nobody gonna give a good cahoot, na na na na
Respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself

Respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself, respect yourself
Respect yourself, yeah yeah respect yourself, respect yourself yeah, respect yourself
You oughta you oughta respect yourself yeah, respect yourself



Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

I seem to have taken over this thread... just too many songs in my head.

Here's a great one written in 1995 by Steve Earle, who at the time having just been released from jail, was writing in a style reminiscent of Townes Van Zandt. It is a beautiful piece of work.

GOODBYE



I remember holding on to you
All them long and lonely nights I put you through
Somewhere in there I'm sure I made you cry
But I can't remember if we said goodbye


But I recall all of them nights down in Mexico
One place I may never go in my life again
Was I just off somewhere just too high
But I can't remember if we said goodbye

I only miss you here every now and then
Like the soft breeze blowing up from the Caribbean
Most Novembers I break down and cry
But I can't remember if we said goodbye

But I recall all of them nights down in Mexico
One place I may never go in my life again
Was I just off somewhere just too high
But I can't remember if we said goodbye

Goodbye, goodbye....



Shine On
Michael

[richclough]

And here are the full lyrics of ‘Go down easy’ by JM. It’s such a beautiful song, the lyrics aren’t particularly poetic or deep, but the music and performance (especially Danny Thompson’s aching double bass) set it off to perfection.



You curl around me
Like a fern in the spring
Lie down here
Let me sing the things you bring.

And We can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

And come up and see me
With your big brown eyes
Come around to my place
You know I’ll sympathise.

And we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

I won’t be fancy
But I will be free
You know I love you
And you can really talk to me.

And we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy.

You curl around me
Like a fern in the spring
Lie down here
Let me sing the things you bring.

And we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

You curl around me
Like a fern in the spring
Lie down here
Let me sing the things you bring.

And We can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

And come up and see me
With your big brown eyes
Come around to my place
You know I’ll sympathise.

And we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

I won’t be fancy
But I will be free
You know I love you
And you can really talk to me.

And we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy.

You curl around me
Like a fern in the spring
Lie down here
Let me sing the things you bring.

And we can go down easy
Oh my lover, we can go down easy
Oh my darling, we can go down easy.

[archtopeddy]

Great songs everyone.  I hadn't heard the Steve Earl or John Martyn songs. I have a couple of new wrinkles in my brain today. Thanks!

A slight aside to the topic, but...   I was talking with a musician friend the other day about lyrics and realized he and many other non-singing players just don't pay much attention to lyrics. They are focused on the feel of the song, the timing, what they are playing or something else, but not the lyrics. I guess it's because if they can't sing, they focus on what they can do. Nonetheless I find this limiting in musical awareness. People who don't listen to the lyrics are often missing an important point of the song, and the lyrics are often what best define the whole mood and direction of the song.  

Have you ever heard a jazz band blow out Lover Come Back To Me at 220 bpm? The melody might be able to carry it, but the lyrics -- definitely not.  It's like playing Am I Blue at the same quick tempo.  It just ain't right.

So back to this topic and examples.

One of my favorite lyricist is Johnny Mercer -- and his words to Lionel Hampton's Midnight Sun is a great example of his work.  Who thinks to rhyme "ruby chalice" with "alabaster palace", but then -- wait folks, he ain't over yet -- he goes for a third rhyme... "Aurora Borealis"  Really?! Who thinks like that!!

Your lips were like a red and ruby chalice,
Warmer than the Summer night.
The clouds were like an alabaster palace,
Rising to a snowy height.
Each star its own Aurora Borealis,
Suddenly you held me tight,
I could see the midnight sun.

Here's the great British singer Cleo Laine, with Gerry Mulligan on killer baritone sax.

[tomgiemza]

When I heard Steve Earle's Galway Girl for the fist time I didn't supposed he wrote it, I thought it was an Irish song, I was surprised by the fact that it was written by American
His son, Justin Townes Earle was a very good songwriter too, sadly, he's no longer with us.

Since Townes Van Zandt and Steve Earle were mentioned, I would like to add Guy Clark to the list. My favourites songs of him are Picasso's Mandolin and The Cape.

[Michael Messer]

...and in that same group of writers, John Prine. I love this one, but Bonnie Raitt is a committed Angel From Montgomery fan.

Is there ever enough space between us
To keep us both honest and true?
Why is it so hard just to sit in the yard
And stare at the sky so blue?
I've got a new way of walking and a new way of talking
Honey when I'm around you,
But it gives me the blues when I've got some good news
And you're not there to bring it to.

Life is a blessing, it's a delicatessen
Of all the little favours you do.
All wrapped up together no matter the weather,
Baby you always come through.
It's a measure of treasure that gives me the pleasure
Of loving you the way I do
And you know I would gladly say I need your love badly
And bring these little things to you.

Cause you got gold Gold inside of you
You got gold Gold inside of you
Well I got some Gold inside me too

Well I'm thinking I'm knowing that I gotta be going
You know I hate to say so long.
It gives me an ocean of mixed up emotion
I'll have to work it out in a song.
Well I'm leaving a lot for the little I got
But you know a lot a little will do
And if you give me your love
I'll let it shine up above
And light my way back home to you.

Cause you got gold Gold inside of you
You got gold Gold inside of you
Well I got some Gold inside me too

You got wheels
Turning inside of you
You got wheels
Turning inside of you
Well I got wheels
Turning inside me too



Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

Lucinda Wiliams is another in that group of writers, Lu and Steve are great friends and both were close to John Prine.

Lake Charles

He had a reason to get back to Lake Charles
He used to talk about it
He'd just go on and on
He always said Louisiana
Was where he felt at home

He was born in Nacogdoches
That's in East Texas
Not far from the border
But he liked to tell everybody
He was from Lake Charles

Did an angel whisper in your ear
And hold you close and take away your fear
In those long last moments

We used to drive
Through Lafayette and Baton Rouge
In a yellow Camino
Listening to Howling Wolf
He liked to stop in Lake Charles
'Cause that's the place that he loved

Did you run about as far as you could go
Down the Louisiana highway
Across Lake Pontchartrain
Now your soul is in Lake Charles
No matter what they say

Did an angel whisper in your ear
And hold you close and take away your fear
In those long last moments

He had a reason to get back to Lake Charles
He used to talk about it
He'd just go on and on
He always said Louisiana
Was where he felt at home

Did an angel whisper in your ear
And hold you close and take away your fear
In those long last moments

Did an angel whisper in your ear
And hold you close and take away your fear
In those long last moments
In those long last moments



Shine On
Michael

[richclough]

Apr 30, 2024 19:43:48 GMT archtopeddy said:

A slight aside to the topic, but...   I was talking with a musician friend the other day about lyrics and realized he and many other non-singing players just don't pay much attention to lyrics. They are focused on the feel of the song, the timing, what they are playing or something else, but not the lyrics. I guess it's because if they can't sing, they focus on what they can do. Nonetheless I find this limiting in musical awareness. People who don't listen to the lyrics are often missing an important point of the song, and the lyrics are often what best define the whole mood and direction of the song.


I once wrote a song, and a friend of mine who didn’t listen to lyrics (violinist BBC Philharmonic, heavy metal bass guitar), commented on a single line. That was the only line to remain in the next version…