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Post by mrsmith on Dec 22, 2023 22:46:26 GMT
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 23, 2023 9:48:33 GMT
Hello mrsmith,
Welcome to our forum.
Your guitar is a 1935 National Estralita and the highest number known at present is N141. The serial number, red decal, chicken foot coverplate and standard National tailpiece tell us its date of manufacture. It is not know exactly how many were produced, but it can only have been around 200. It is therefore a rare and quite valuable guitar. I do not do valuations on this forum, because without having a guitar in my hands I cannot be sure of its value. I can tell you that as an all original, clean, honest Estralita in very nice, but not mint condition, this guitar is very desirable and is worth money. Be very careful who you accept its valuation from, because a lot of collectors and knowledgeable people will try and get this off you for less than it is worth.
I have just done a quick search on the Internet and I cannot find one of these for sale. This makes it a very desirable piece. My advice is to do nothing for a couple of weeks and keep this thread alive. I have changed the thread's title so it gets noticed by the Google algorithm spies.
I will not give a figure, but I will help and advise you on this. Be careful, there will be people wanting to get their hands on your guitar.
I would like to hear your music, as I am not sure if you know that I have been touring and recording with Indian musicians for ten years, and have been listening to Indian slide guitar for most of forty years. My website has details of the trio 'Michael Messer's Mitra'. By the way, the musician you refer to as Bushran Kabra is not quite right. The late and great Brij Bhushan Kabra was inventor of Indian slide guitar playing and his album with Shiv Kumar Sharma, Hariprasad Chaurasia and Manikrao Popatkar, is probably India's most famous Hindustani classical album. It was first brought to the West by Paul McCartney and George Harrison, and they introduced it to Bob Dylan, David Crosby and a few other friends. From there its popularity grew to enormous proportions. It is a masterpiece and is one of my favourite albums.
I hope this is all helpful information.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by snakehips on Dec 23, 2023 11:47:42 GMT
Hi there !
Very nice guitar. Sounds like you will miss it far too much if you sell it.
I forget the differences in construction / spec, with the more common National Trojan guitar, which is also a wood-bodied National guitar with a 14-fret neck join - but your guitar is valued higher (by some, only) than a Trojan, mostly because of it's rarity.
The finish is a bit different than a Trojan, maybe a bit more expensive in it's day. Also, it has an inlaid rosette around the metal coverplate, like the 12-fret neck join predecessor, the "El Trovador". Apart from that, and the fancier fretboard inlays, I'm not really sure what is different about the guitar to a Trojan. As Michael says, potential buyers might want to "devalue" your guitar, I'd expect, to the value of a Trojan, or just over.
However, some will definitely want THIS guitar because it's rare - so hold out for a good price (if you can wait).
But what price ? That's difficult to say. It does depend WHERE you try to sell it. Ebay and Reverb will gain exposure BUT the commission/fees they charge and/or with Paypal or other banking fees, especially if sold internationally, will wat away at some of the potential money you could make from this guitar.
Your post here is a good place as you may get good interest from individuals directly.
I fancy it myself, but I'bought too many guitars in the last while and "up to the brim" of what I'm allowed, ha ha !!
Good luck. I'm fairly sure you will get a good price for your guitar though.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 23, 2023 12:03:39 GMT
One of the differences between the Estralita and Trojan is that the sides are much thinner, only 2mm thick. This makes a big difference to the tone. These guitars were produced in such few numbers that for rarity value alone, it is worth good money.
One very important point here is that while I have dated it at 1935, that is only an intelligent guess. The reason is that we don't know how many were made and we don't actually know whether they were produced all in one batch, or whether they were manufactured in small batches. If it is the latter, the difference between N126 and this one, N137, could be a year. I doubt that is the case and for all intents and purposes I would put it at 1935, but.... we cannot be sure.
I believe there are currently somewhere around 60 of these guitars known to exist. That doesn't mean there are only 60, but so far that is all that have turned up.
I am being pushed, by myself, to start talking numbers because I believe its value is higher that Richard (Snakehips) has estimated. This is all about rarity, originality and condition, and N137 has all of those factors very nicely in place.
mrsmith, I am not asking for your address, but are you in the UK? I assume you are by your forum name, it's a very English approach to an online anonymity.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Mark Makin on Dec 23, 2023 13:11:12 GMT
Hi Snakehips
The main difference is that the body is larger (orchestra size) and more importantly much deeper (4 and a bit inches! ) so the sound is much fuller, bassier and louder than a Trojan. When made in the 30s, they cost $55 to a Trojans $35.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 23, 2023 13:16:02 GMT
My apologies, I forgot to mention the depth of the body.
This is a superior instrument to a National Trojan.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by mckinleybe1 on Dec 23, 2023 14:38:04 GMT
One of my favorite things about this forum…these kind of discussions. I feel like I’m in a classroom or an Indiana Jones movie awaiting a discovery of another artifact. Thank you.
Brian
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Post by snakehips on Dec 23, 2023 18:20:43 GMT
Ah ha !
So, the Estralita is a totally different guitar then - bigger body size, deeper body too, and fancier cosmetics - than a National Trojan. That makes it a totally different beast then MOST Nationals then, of any model. A rare beast then. Fair enough - that makes for a much higher value than a wood-bodied Trojan.
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 23, 2023 19:20:42 GMT
Ah ha ! So, the Estralita is a totally different guitar then - bigger body size, deeper body too, and fancier cosmetics - than a National Trojan. That makes it a totally different beast then MOST Nationals then, of any model. A rare beast then. Fair enough - that makes for a much higher value than a wood-bodied Trojan. Exactly. That is the reason I am trying to offer the best advice I can and probably end up putting a price on it. But first we need to hear from mrsmith. Shine On Michael |
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Post by mrsmith on Dec 24, 2023 6:08:03 GMT
Hello Michael (and all others on this thread), Thank you so much for all of the useful information you guys have provided. My last name is actually Smith, and first name is Blaise. Michael, I appreciate you asking to hear some of my music, although the "Indian style" music I played was mostly live at various gallery openings and salon type of events. And thank you for clarifying the name of Brij Bhushan Kabra, I mostly heard his recordings on the album "Call of the Valley" many years ago and of course I was blown away. Primarily I am a composer and have written music for TV commercials and theme songs. My music company is Music Orange (musicorange.com). We have a variety of music that was all written by myself and my two partners. if you happen to go to the site, pretty much anything with acoustic guitar was played by me. My most notable composition was the music I wrote for the Spongebob Squarepants Theme Song (IMDB)". As you can guess, the royalties have been great since I wrote that, but my financial situation is not ideal right now for many reasons I can't go into, which is why I'm a bit short on cash these days. However I am in no hurry to sell the Estralita, so your advice about waiting for a while seems very sound. I figure the right person will come along with a fair price eventually (eventually pronounced as Mañuel from Faulty Towers says it). That is so amazing that you have been playing with Indian musicians for such a long time. I think slide guitar in Indian music is such a unique sound and really not really represented by any other classical Indian instrument.
I am realizing that you are perhaps located in England (correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm in the Pacific Northwest in US, but my company is run out of San Francisco (where I lived for 50 years). Also if you are interested, I have songs on Apple Music and Spotify under my name and the album I would recommend is "Medicate". I recorded it with a great pedal steel player (David Phillips) and his performances on the songs "Everything is Everything" and "Dream" are really things of beauty.
Again thank you so much for your help, I feel like you and all the folks on the platform I've encountered so far are very trustworthy and sincere folks. Blaise
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Post by stevearcade on Dec 24, 2023 7:54:09 GMT
Hello Michael (and all others on this thread), Thank you so much for all of the useful information you guys have provided. My last name is actually Smith, and first name is Blaise. Michael, I appreciate you asking to hear some of my music, although the "Indian style" music I played was mostly live at various gallery openings and salon type of events. And thank you for clarifying the name of Brij Bhushan Kabra, I mostly heard his recordings on the album "Call of the Valley" many years ago and of course I was blown away. Primarily I am a composer and have written music for TV commercials and theme songs. My music company is Music Orange (musicorange.com). We have a variety of music that was all written by myself and my two partners. if you happen to go to the site, pretty much anything with acoustic guitar was played by me. My most notable composition was the music I wrote for the Spongebob Squarepants Theme Song (IMDB)". As you can guess, the royalties have been great since I wrote that, but my financial situation is not ideal right now for many reasons I can't go into, which is why I'm a bit short on cash these days. However I am in no hurry to sell the Estralita, so your advice about waiting for a while seems very sound. I figure the right person will come along with a fair price eventually (eventually pronounced as Mañuel from Faulty Towers says it). That is so amazing that you have been playing with Indian musicians for such a long time. I think slide guitar in Indian music is such a unique sound and really not really represented by any other classical Indian instrument. I am realizing that you are perhaps located in England (correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm in the Pacific Northwest in US, but my company is run out of San Francisco (where I lived for 50 years). Also if you are interested, I have songs on Apple Music and Spotify under my name and the album I would recommend is "Medicate". I recorded it with a great pedal steel player (David Phillips) and his performances on the songs "Everything is Everything" and "Dream" are really things of beauty. Again thank you so much for your help, I feel like you and all the folks on the platform I've encountered so far are very trustworthy and sincere folks. Blaise Wow! My son LOOOOOOVES SpongeBob. He's watched every episode. That show was HUGE!!!! Tom Kenny (SB's voice actor) is also firm fixture in another of our household's favourite shows, Adventure Time, where he plays the Ice King/Simon Petrikov. Did you have much involvement with SpongeBob beyond the title theme? I know some people who go in really hard on the incidental, background music from that show, and really enjoy geeking out on it, scouring the internet for examples of the background music with the dialogue removed, etc. That show was a huge part of so many people's childhoods. Whilst I'm of the older generation that grew up on Ghostbusters and Transformers, it nevertheless feels like an enormous privilege to be chatting with you on a message board. Quite surreal actually  . |
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Post by zimmharpo23 on Dec 24, 2023 13:02:05 GMT
Hello Michael (and all others on this thread), Thank you so much for all of the useful information you guys have provided. My last name is actually Smith, and first name is Blaise. Michael, I appreciate you asking to hear some of my music, although the "Indian style" music I played was mostly live at various gallery openings and salon type of events. And thank you for clarifying the name of Brij Bhushan Kabra, I mostly heard his recordings on the album "Call of the Valley" many years ago and of course I was blown away. Primarily I am a composer and have written music for TV commercials and theme songs. My music company is Music Orange (musicorange.com). (Edit)My most notable composition was the music I wrote for the Spongebob Squarepants Theme Song (IMDB)". Wow! This forum does not disappoint! SpongeBob SquarePants was the soundtrack to my kids’ childhood and we had many happy hours watching the programme and enjoying the ukuleles and resonator guitar sounds. Great to have you on this forum mr smith! |
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Post by Michael Messer on Dec 24, 2023 13:59:26 GMT
Hello Michael (and all others on this thread), Thank you so much for all of the useful information you guys have provided. My last name is actually Smith, and first name is Blaise. Michael, I appreciate you asking to hear some of my music, although the "Indian style" music I played was mostly live at various gallery openings and salon type of events. And thank you for clarifying the name of Brij Bhushan Kabra, I mostly heard his recordings on the album "Call of the Valley" many years ago and of course I was blown away. Primarily I am a composer and have written music for TV commercials and theme songs. My music company is Music Orange (musicorange.com). We have a variety of music that was all written by myself and my two partners. if you happen to go to the site, pretty much anything with acoustic guitar was played by me. My most notable composition was the music I wrote for the Spongebob Squarepants Theme Song (IMDB)". As you can guess, the royalties have been great since I wrote that, but my financial situation is not ideal right now for many reasons I can't go into, which is why I'm a bit short on cash these days. However I am in no hurry to sell the Estralita, so your advice about waiting for a while seems very sound. I figure the right person will come along with a fair price eventually (eventually pronounced as Mañuel from Faulty Towers says it). That is so amazing that you have been playing with Indian musicians for such a long time. I think slide guitar in Indian music is such a unique sound and really not really represented by any other classical Indian instrument. I am realizing that you are perhaps located in England (correct me if I'm wrong) so I'm in the Pacific Northwest in US, but my company is run out of San Francisco (where I lived for 50 years). Also if you are interested, I have songs on Apple Music and Spotify under my name and the album I would recommend is "Medicate". I recorded it with a great pedal steel player (David Phillips) and his performances on the songs "Everything is Everything" and "Dream" are really things of beauty. Again thank you so much for your help, I feel like you and all the folks on the platform I've encountered so far are very trustworthy and sincere folks. Blaise Hello Blaise, It is our pleasure. We enjoy it when an interesting and unusual guitar turns up on the forum and your Estralita is a beautiful instrument. After the Christmas holiday if you send me a private message I will advise you about the value of your guitar and where to advertise it. Certainly being on this forum might be the advert you need. You should be able to get good money for your guitar. I have looked at the Music Orange website and listened to some of your music, which I enjoyed very much. When I get some time in January I will delve in further and listen to more. Spongebob Squarepants was not around when my daughters were little, so sadly I missed it, but trawling through a few Youtube videos this morning I enjoyed very much. Your connection with this TV show certainly got noticed by some of the forum members, I am sure that happens quite a lot. In 2010 I was involved with a children's TV show on BBC and I still get people saying they used to watch it with their children or grandchildren. It's a wonderful thing. I had a feeling that Call Of The Valley was an album you would know. Do you know Brij Bhushan Kabra's album 'Lure Of The Desert' (folk songs of Rajasthan), if you don't you must get hold of it. For me it is right up there with Call Of The Valley. He is known in my house as BBK and is very much the father of all Indian slide guitar playing. You are a welcome member of our community. Shine On Michael |
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Post by mrsmith on Dec 24, 2023 21:56:39 GMT
Hello Michael, Thanks again for helping me out with finding fair value for the Estralita. I found "Lure Of The Desert" on YouTube and listening to it is making Christmas much more pleasant! What a genius he is!
I'm happy to hear the Spongebob Fans talk about their (and their kids) experiences with the show. I am quite proud of my contribution to the theme song, I think the sentiment behind the stories is really positive and they send a great message to the kids without being preachy. I got that gig because Stephen (the creator of SB) went to college with my partner at the time. He sent a short video and asked us to write some music to the lyrics he wrote (for free of course). He had graduated from Humboldt college (up in the golden triangle) studying marine biology and was now at CAl Arts studying animation. I brought in an Irish music button accordion player and I played the penny whistle, guitar and bass. I really thought it was kind of a silly project and wouldn't go anywhere (like many other free jobs) but figured I'd do my best as a professional. Finally I felt like it needed drums so I asked the drummer to play a kind of Pogues beat, which really didn't go quite right with the music, but I kind of liked the contrast. Now it has been translated into 57 languages and kids around the world really love the show. I finally got paid a few grand for the session itself, but the writer royalties have been enough to raise a family and allowed me to keep playing music full time for the past 25 years which is all I really wanted to do anyway.
If anyone is interested, I really like the song by J Balvin and Tainy which was written for the newest Spongebob "Sponge On The Run" movie. They sampled my penny whistle and use it for the basis of a reggaeton track. Here is a link to the video if you want to check it out.
Sadly, after Stephen passed away several years ago, the clowns at Nickelodeon/Viacom are making a bunch of new TV shows, musicals, etc. based on the characters that Stephen created. They are mostly terrible. I heard that Stephen always said he didn't want spin-offs of the show and wanted to keep it special, but as you know corporate greed beats true art every time.
I look forward to hearing from you after Christmas about the guitar. Have a wonderful Happy and Healthy Holiday season and thanks again for turning me on to the BBK album!
Blaise
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Post by bonzo on Dec 24, 2023 22:21:41 GMT
Great stuff Blaise 👏
Interesting and informative to hear how music enters the consciousness of us and our kids shaping our interest in stuff we may never have come across. A few of us cone heads are of a certain age, still nice to have our interest piqued I hope you agree 👍. Well done 👏
Best wishes to you all, John
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