1936 National Trojan on Reverb

[tomgiemza]

reverb.com/en-gr/item/62557797-national-trojan-1936-wood

It seems like a fair price. I have enough guitars, but some of you might be interested. Description is in spanish, you can use a translator.

[Michael Messer]

That is a big price drop. Not sure about all the details on this one.

Here's a paragraph and illustration from Mark Makin's book.....

"‘Trojan/Supertone’. Standard Body.
Z series. 1936.
Harmony-built, these were the same
instrument as the standard body ‘Trojan’, but
they are notable for their distinctive ‘straight-
through’ ‘f’ holes. The necks were Mahogany,
but the bodies only had a Mahogany top
veneer. These were numbered in the ‘Z’ series - the
highest known being Z2287.
These instruments were never branded as
‘Trojans’ or even Nationals (none have been
seen with decals of any sort). They were sold
through the Sears catalogue - branded as
‘Supertones’. "



And here's the one on Reverb....



Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi there !

I am friends with a musician from the island, so I asked him if he knows the seller. Turns out, it’s a friend of his.
My friend lives in Barcelona these days but visits Majorca regularly to see family and gig with a band he still has there (I even did a gig with him, in Palma, a year past last August). My friend is a good guy. I’m sure his friend selling the guitar, will be a good guy too.
I'll try to find out more though.

[snakehips]

Hi again !

My friend got back to me - and says this seller of the guitar is a good guy and we can trust him.
(That's as good as I can do to help anyone interested in the guitar !)

[toremainn]

This one has a decal.

These instruments were never branded as
‘Trojans’ or even Nationals (none have been
seen with decals of any sort). (Mark Makin)

[Michael Messer]

Nov 4, 2023 17:06:49 GMT toremainn said:

This one has a decal.

These instruments were never branded as
‘Trojans’ or even Nationals (none have been
seen with decals of any sort). (Mark Makin)

Maybe I wasn’t clear. That is why I said that I wasn’t sure about the details.

Shine On
Michael

[Mark Makin]

Hi Toremainn

Yes, it does have a decal - it shouldn't - but it does!
ALL of these instruments were built by Harmony (with supplied National parts). They were then supplied from Harmony directly to the trade catalogues like Sears at a particular price point. They were usually known as 'Supertones'. - This was the catalogue trade banner name. They NEVER (in the catalogue) carried a National brand name because they were sold at undercut prices. This would have contravened their deal with National. However, these guitars are pretty much EXACTLY the same as a National Trojan. The only difference is the f hole cutter shape and the Z series serial number. Harmony built the same instrument for National but with different f holes and a T series number. At National's factory, it was fitted with decal, cones and hardware and sold as a NATIONAL TROJAN.

Over many years, we have become used to National's ways of manufacture and have learned that they regularly would add something 'quickly' to an order to get it out of the factory. For instance, a dozen or so early wood bodied Triolians have been identified that were regularly used to fill up orders of 'metal bodied' Triolians. They were painted up to look the same and issued with a serial number from a metal bodied range. This was a quick answer to a problem. ...."10 Triolians you want mate, 10 Triolians you've got!!!"
Back then, nobody seemed to be as critical and, without the instant internet, would only buy what they saw in a music shop close to home!

I suspect this 'Trojan' is a similar exception. It was probably needed to complete an order of 'standard' National Trojans and for want of a decal would be pretty much the same thing!! Who would care about a difference in the f holes?

These are just examples of a busy company getting through the day!. It's human nature.

[toremainn]

Thanks Mark. Great info. :-)

[mitchfit]

The Honorable Mark Makin, Global Moderator said:

"These are just examples of a busy company getting through the day! It's human nature."

a further aspect to consider. in the mid 1960's when National was rushing to assemble remaining parts into 1133 guits before the lights were turned off at the factory:

there was no longer a National badge included on the pick guard/scratch plate.

there wasn't even the "National" brand name on the front of the head stock any more.

instead of the previous metal tag with stamped serial number tacked on rear of head stock, there was a sticker with serial # on it placed there.

if anyone knows an owner of one of these with the first part of their serial sticker missing, i have it for sale with a VERY serious collector's premium.

[Bu-Wa-ha-ha]

undeniable signs of a business that is cratering?

not really. my Gibson S1 was from the initial circa 1975 manufacture run. the very first of them all had late 1960's dating stamped serial #'s on the rear of head stock. same from previously unused "Flying V" necks that were converted from set neck to bolt on to get rid of the overstock.

the truth can be stranger than the evening news broadcast,
mitchfit