NRP Piccolo guitar & other short-scale guitars

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Does anyone know what the correct svale length for there Student Model 1133 guitars is, please ?

I briefly owned one some years back but forgot to remember what the scale length was before I sent it back to the ebay seller (there were some issues with it).

Although I could cope with the shorter scale length, the much narrower string spacing was too close together for me.
My son has a Taylor GS-Mini - and at 23.5” scale length it is very playable - and a great sounding guitar.

I’m just trying to compare that to :

“Standard” Gibson & National - 24.75” scale length, versus
Taylor GS-Mini - 23.5” scale length, versus
NRP Piccolo guitar - 22.5” scale length

I’m interested in the Piccolo guitar and wondering if it’s the same scale length or shorter than the 1950’s Student Model 1133 & Taylor GS-Mini.
The string spacing looks closer to normal scale-length guitars, luckily!

Does anyone have a NRP Piccolo guitar ?

Has anyone tried different gauge strings to see which tuning works best for this short-scale guitar ?
Catfish Keith says they come with 10-48 strings - that’s like electric guitar strings to me - familiar territory!.
I’m wondering how easy string/note bending is.

[Pickers Ditch]

My National 1133 guitar scale length is 22".

Strung with 11s and a plain 3rd, it is very bendable.

[pete1951]

An 010 top string would be ridiculously light on a very short scale neck. It would be very bendable, a bit like an 08 on a standard neck, I would think the acoustic tone would be very underwhelming
I have several guitars with shorter than standing scale, will measure later, most I think, have a gauge heavier than I would use on a standard scale. I do some string bending so they are lighter than many slide players would use........but breakfast calls and I have a Strat to rewire before lunch.
Pete

[pete1951]

So the ‘Faux’ reso, 011-053, it now has a cone in it) is usually tuned to A or B flat , I used to use this to play along with Robert Johnson stuff without using a capo. It has a standard 011-053 acoustic bronze set ( wound 3rd) and the action is a little high but I can bend note just fine ( on the top 2 strings) the acoustic tone is pretty good for such light strings

The Dallas 011-048, is one I take to jams, it has no truss rod so 011-48 are the heaviest I want to use, lots of bending with a plain 3rd.

The Baby Taylor feels like a standard guitar with 013s ( it has Newtone Monels 016 top, at the moment, though the G is a bit quiet through the ‘hot plate) so bending is more of an effort!
Pete

[Michael Messer]

My 1133 is strung with 15-56 and is a beautiful guitar to play. I went through a phase of stringing it with very light gauge and tuning it like a Requinto guitar, a fourth above standard. Short scale guitars sound amazing tuned up a fourth and become a whole different thing. So for example in standard open Spanish it would be C tuning - G C G C E G, or in standard tuning it would be - A D G C E A

An 1133 tuned in this way is no longer a student 'fun' guitar, it is a proper instrument and is fantastic when played with other guitars.

Shine On
Michael

[snakehips]

Hi again & thanks for the replies !

There are very few videos that I can find demonstrating the guitar.
The ones I did (US guitar shop cheesy demoes with playing styles) that don't, to me, demonstrate how it could sound if I was playing it !
eg. they were playing gently with bare fingers. I wanna know how it sounds with thumb & finger picks, knocking hell outta the guitar !!

It was tuned a 4th up to A - and I feel it might be better with fatter strings tuned a minor 3rd up (like capo'ing 3 frets up a normal guitar) - to G.

Would be really portable though at that size.

I want something with really bendable strings.

[Michael Messer]

I know nothing of the NRP Piccolo guitar, but I am sure it sounds fine. 1133s are great guitars for air travel because you can take the neck off and pack it in a suitcase, or leave the neck on and put it in the overhead.

I would think the NRP Piccolo would sound fine in any tuning, why wouldn't it?

Shine On
Michael

[pete1951]

Aug 30, 2023 12:20:18 GMT snakehips said:

. I wanna know how it sounds with thumb & finger picks, knocking hell outta the guitar !!


I want something with really bendable strings.

You can put 009s on a Duolian and have a very ‘bendable ‘ action or 015s on. Les Paul and ‘knock hell outta it’ but not sure you will combine the two without compromising something.

Pete

Stevie Ray Vaughn is said to have used 013s ( tuned down a semi tone, so about the same tension as an 012 set ? ) but he must have had more strength than most!

[slide496]

Here's a page with 14 fret NRP Picolo specs reverb.com/item/16692605-national-nrp-piccolo-14-fret-guitar-chipped-ivory-finish-w-hotplate-pickup

I'm also listing below for forum members:

Top Wood: Steel Back Wood: Steel Scale: 22.5" Nut Width: 1.825" Frets To Body: 14 Chipped Ivory Finish Weathered Steel Hot Plate Finish Serial Number: 22677 Neck Wood: Honduras Mahogany Fretboard: Ebony Bridge: Maple Biscuit Headstock Shape: Paddle Headstock Inlay: Stamped Logo Tuners: National Brand Inlays: Dots Body Depth: 3.125" Lower Bout Width: 14" Upper Bout Width: 10.25"

I have tried a bunch of short scale guitars, acoustic and electric and one travel resonaor. I found them hard to set up at a pitch I wanted. If you are looking for both bendability and have a specific pitch in mind with a small resonator that scale you might have to adjust your plans and experiment with string weight to get the cone drive according to what the instrument can handle.

My travel Republic Highway 61 is a 22 inch scale and has been set up with Newtones 15-56 PB vestapol from D# to F at various times depending on what I was tring to learn.

[mitchfit]

my 1133 has only tried light gauge strings once since i bought it in the 1990's. was not good sounding to my ears, even tuned up as far as i dared. YMMV.

came somewhere in between high nut and what would be considered "fret-able" height from factory to my thinking.

nut width and distance to fret board not an issue for slide use only.

as such, no experience with bending notes VS string diameter to offer. let us know how your search goes.

mitchfit

[pete1951]

I have a feeling that the shorter the scale the more ‘ immediate ‘ the bending will be. With a long scale string there is more string to stretch so you will have to bend the string more to sharpen it compared with a short scale. This is hard to test ( you can’t just use a capo on a long scale as the string is still ‘long’)


Does this make any sense? I thought it did before I started writing.

I will do some measurements.
Pete

It could mean that a short scale bends to the desired note quicker, so bending not as far, as a long scale. But the push may be harder???

[snakehips]

Hi again,

I have a non-reso Beltona ukulele - unusual one with 5 individual strings.
It was one of a bunch Steve Evans made when in New Zealand - with his fibreglass back & sides BUT with non-reso, wooden tops.
It's a Concert model - and I love it !! I've also dropped it on my concrete garage floor - and bust the wooden top - so sent back to Steve - and he expertly fitted a whole new wooden top.

This thing is string-bend heaven !
Anyway - 5-strings - the first 4 strings are laid out like a standard 4 string uke, with a "re-entrant" 4th string. (so it's gCEA tuning).
The 5th string is the extra string - and is basically a "Low G" string that people use if they want to tune their uke with a low G.
You can get 5-string ukes where the G string is a double course - low & high G.
Mine is like that, except I have mine set as 5 individual strings (No double-courses) - and I tune up that low 5th string, to A.
This way, I play it like a guitar that is capo'd up to the 5th fret, and I have a low root note.
(imagine taking the 5h string off a guitar, and putting the 6th string in the 5th string slots).
I play it like a guitar, in E, A7 and B7 chord shapes (except it's a 4th up !).

Love it so much but the Concert uke scale length is a bit too short for me - I often over-shoot beyond the fret I wanted.
So, I got Steve Evans to make me a 5-string Tenor uke, in the same way - but a reso uke this time.
It's fine but just not so string bendy.

Anyway, sometimes I miss having the full 6 strings -and a decent length for the scale length would be cool on some sort of an instrument IF I still had bendy strings ! Hence, wondering about the piccolo guitar. Would be cool for it to be a shiny reso too. So, the Piccolo is beginning to sound v interesting to me.

I wish NRP could make a nicer tailpiece for it though - I mean, why couldn't they make their own rather than have to buy some generic, horrible-looking stumpy/lumpy thing ? !! They have all the machinery to do so.

[davey]

I've recently bought an Eastman "travel" Guitar as I'm learning a bit of Jazz and couldn't manage the Barres on my main Guitar. it's 24 inch scale and they string it with 12 to 53. It's really easy to play and the deep body gives it a great sound. Incidentally, my main guitar is an Eastman too but a high end one. I think they're making superb instruments now.

[leeophonic]

Dave King re necked a couple of tenors up to six string a few years ago for a chap in the Oxford area from memory, although unless it has a V twin Dave will not remember it!!!

Lee

[Michael Messer]

Aug 31, 2023 11:22:18 GMT leeophonic said:

Dave King re necked a couple of tenors up to six string a few years ago for a chap in the Oxford area from memory, although unless it has a V twin Dave will not remember it!!!

Lee

Dave King remembers everything about that instrument and still has the original neck kicking around somewhere. It was made for a university lecturer/guitar collector in the Oxford area that both Dave I knew. Dave said he remembers it as more of a novelty than a serious instrument, but it played and sounded good.

Always good to remember that we are talking on a public forum that is read by around a thousand people every day 😉 😎

Shine On
Michael