Volume levels: Sixtus pickup vs National Slimline

[archtopeddy]

Hi everyone. I have two metal resonator guitars: a 1929 National Triolian, and a Republic Parlor Rocket. I use both for gigs indoors and outdoors.  The Triolian has a Sixtus pickup and the Republic has a National Slimline. While both pickups sound great, recently, it's seems to me that the Sixtus doesn't have the volume level (or "umph" as I'd call it) as does the Slimline. 

Has anyone else experienced this?

The issue is most noticable during outdoor gigs where we need to crank up our PA system (usually a Bose L1 Pro32). Indoors it's fine. And the Sixtus sounds so sweet, but sometimes I just need the extra punch.  Full disclosure: The issue may be the way I have the Bose set and may need to tweek it better. I'll be examining that as well.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions. Your collected understanding has been extremely helpful to me in the past. In fact, I have the Triolian and the Sixtus pickups based on information I learned here!

Archtop Eddy

[bluesdude]

Hi there I gig with both on vintage Nationals so I guess I could tell what I do. My mag pickups are plugged into a Shatten volume control that plugs into the guitar jacks, then they plug into a tweed Tremolux and with that volume control I can get the the same level ,the amp is mic'd up and mix in the board with a Sure SM 57. I get a lot of compliments on my sound by other guitar players and its very fast to set up,hope this helps.

Kenny,,,,,,,,,,

[archtopeddy]

Thanks Kenny. That sounds like a great setup. Since I'm going straight into the Bose T8 mixer to Pro/32, and not using a separate amp, I think I will try a Grace BIX preamp and see if that helps. I appreciate your quick response to my question.

I'm still wondering though, has anyone experienced volume differences between a Sixtus and Slimline?

Archtop Eddy

[Michael Messer]

What type of Sixtus pickup do you use - humbucker or single coil?

Shine On
Michael

[archtopeddy]

Hi Michael. I bought it recently from Elmar Zeilhofer. His website calls it a Sixtus resonator humbucker. It's a great pickup as you already know. (Not to beat a dead-horse here...), but just wondering how its volume level holds up against a National Slimline. Thanks!

[mitchfit]

archtopeddy,

it may seem counterintuitive but >>>generally speaking,<<< if both PUPs are in good working order an ohm measurement will usually show the loudest one has the highest resistance.

[more wiring around the magnets = more voltage sent to the amp]

there are many other variables to include that could skew above statement.

just a rule of thumb generality.

mitchfit

[archtopeddy]

Thanks Mitch. Nice tip. I checked my PUPs with an ohm meter -- and they're both essentially the same: the Sixtus at 8.05 and the Slimline at 8.04. I also have a Krivo PU installed on a wood body 34 Model 27 Dobro so I checked that and it measure 6.73. Funny thing is that it sounds fine volume wise. The more I dig into this I'm thinking I didn't have the trim and volume set correctly on the mixer. I have a gig tomorrow night and I can check it then. I also still like the idea of trying it with the Grace BIX preamp. I'm really beginning to think it's not the pickups, it something else I'm doing...

[mitchfit]

" I also have a Krivo PU installed on a wood body 34 Model 27 Dobro so I checked that and it measure 6.73. Funny thing is that it sounds fine volume wise."

agreed, sounds like you have been barking up the wrong tree.

www.wellpcb.com/trimpot-pinout.html

mitchfit

[mitchfit]

PS-- have you been using the same guitar out to amplifier in cable for all above results?

these have internal resistance and shielding built-in to reduce radio frequency interference.

[emitters can vary from fluorescent lights to microwave ovens, and all between]

i can't explain why but sometimes even the same cable will yield different results if just switched in and out ends for comparison.

part science and part magic....

hope this helps,
mitchfit

[Michael Messer]

The Sixtus humbucker is a powerful pickup. I had them made as MM pickups until Brexit stole it from me and they are excellent, I have never had anyone complain about the power of them.

I am happy for this discussion to be on here, but I think you should be directing your questions to the maker, Elmar, as he knows all there is to know about such things.

Shine On
Michael

[archtopeddy]

Thanks Kenny, Mitch and Michael for your inputs. I agree there's probably no concern regarding the Sixtus PU and my problem lies elsewhere in my setup. Your inputs helped me isolate the problem and there's no need to continue this thread unless you think it might provide information in the future for someone else seeking similar information. Please keep or remove as you see fit.

Archtop Eddy

[elmar]

Hi, neither do I know the setup in question; but I came across a rather simple solution in a different case: while the pickup showed the correct 8kOhm, the hot lug of the female connector wasn't touching the hot tip of the jack, resulting in open circuit and tiny output. -> problem solved.
Secondly, I recommend to set the volume dial rather towards 11 while gain serves as output control

[archtopeddy]

Thank you Elmar for stopping in and providing your input. Very useful suggestions. I'd also like to take this moment to note the Sixtus is a marvelous pickup! It really provides a fantastic sound on my 29 National Triolian. I use it at every gig and it sounds excellent through a variety of systems. The issue I had earlier was because we were playing an outdoor gig and I had to push the signal as high as I could with the Bose L1 Pro32. Upon reflection, I think I may have failed to turned up the gain enough on the power stand, thus pushing the trim and volume too high on the mixer. I have another outdoor gig in a couple of days and can evaluate the settings again then. Again, thanks for everyone's help.