Ronnie Lane Zemaitis build Spider Resonator

[frederickmannino]

I am interested in making a Zemaitis style resonator. Something between the 6 string cutaway and 12 string he had made for him. The forum got me thinking that the wood that Tony Z used, while nice I am sure wasn't plywood.  I am given to understand Ronnie's spider came from his Shobud but I have never seen one of these in person, or a real Z guitar for that matter.

          

The Gretsch Shobuds look to be made with a solid spruce top. Can anyone confirm this?


Having looked around the forum and having owned and sadly sold a NRP Islander I know that birch plywood works well. I was thinking of using a marine grade mahogany plywood sold here on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. The closest thing to the 5mm I keep being discussed on the forum is 1/4" or 6.35mm. I was thinking, I can sand this down to 5mm, I hope with a drum sander? And I would hope that in sanding it, I won't sand through to next layer of ply, maybe try taking some from the front and back. Does this sound like a good idea or should I not bother and just go with 1/4"?



Another thing I have been thinking about is the book match look some Nationals have, yet plywood can't be book matched. Was this look accomplished by adding book matched veneers to the top of plywood? That could work right?
And finally bending the sides. Will plywood bend like solid sides? I keep thinking the steam might allow the wood to come apart, is that a real concern? If so then solid sides may be the way to go.

And the tail pieces for these guitars were created in some fashion so far unknown to me. Any thoughts here would be appreciated. I noticed the heart tailpiece on the 12 string is very different form  the 6 string.   here is a close up of the 6 string tail. Looking forward to everyone's thoughts and ideas. Thank you, Frederick 

[pete1951]

Most good sounding resos seem to be made of ply, the top should be stiff ,though I think the sides could be much less than 5-6mm. Most ply doesn’t want to bend.
I have a set of plans (by Paul Beard) for a Dobro, this shows mostly 1/8 veneered back and top, and the sides are described as ‘ pre-bent veneered 7/64” thick..
There does exist a bendable ply ( made for making arches and curved , used a lot for shows and film sets) possibly called Bendy Ply? But I have not used it.

The tailpiece looks as if it’s made of thick aluminium which is easy to work.
Pete

[Michael Messer]

Hi Frederick,

I hope you don't mind but I am going to post our email conversation on here because it puts the reason you posted into context.

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Michael,

I was welcomed to the forum today, thank you. I have been playing for a while now, as I am 55 at the end of the month. Being from the south I came into the blues from a roundabout direction. I grew up listening to my older sisters and brothers records, they loved the Stones and the Beatles, etc. and that's what I came to love. So yes, I got into the blues through Clapton, Jagger and Richards, Townshend, the two Ronnies and the all that great music from the UK! Crazy? I know, the first time I heard a Robert Johnson song, it was a covered by the Stones.

Over the years I have had many cases of SR (Sellers Remorse) since I started, most players come down with this condition at least once. We carry on. But I still miss the Islander I bought in the early 90s, the serial number was less than 100 and maybe above 90 and I will miss a '29 Triolian refin I bought and returned, so dumb.

Anyway, I have been playing a Far East made wood bodied Johnson Triolian for many years to fill my needs and the gap left by poor financial judgement. As you can see I painted it myself and its a fun mess. I really like the volcano on the horizon to the left side on the back. National could have done this and missed the boat in my opinion anyway.

I am reaching out to you because I have interest in building a copy or a replica of Ronnie Lane's Zemaitis 6 or 12 string resonators. Tony made these and others for him and because you are in the UK, I wondered if you had any knowledge of these guitars?

I am "friends" with Keith Smart, the 6 string's current owner, on Facebook and he is not too keen on my project, I'd guess this is the case because he wasn't into the idea of sharing the specs of Ronnie's cutaway 6 string. I've read on the forum, that many builders use plywood but I'd bet Tony didn't. I also wondered about the sound well in that thing too. The size is about that of Ivan the Terrible Tony made for Eric Clapton. Any thoughts as to its construction are appreciated?

Thanks very much,
Frederick Mannino
Gulfport, Mississippi USA
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Dear Frederick

Thank you for getting in touch. It is always good to hear from people with interesting projects and with cool life stories!

I have two suggestions, one is that you put all this, your story and the Zemaitis project, on my forum. You would be surprised how much knowledge lurks around on there. Some of the most knowledgeable guitar people in the world are members and regular visitors. I would also suggest that you write to my luthier friend, Dave King. Dave has worked on Zemaitis guitars and would be well worth you getting in touch.

I have seen and played a few Zemaitis guitars over the years and while they are amazing for their place in history, by today’s standards they are not the greatest guitars ever built. These days luthiers are so much more knowledgeable and skilled at what they do. I have seen the three Zemaitis guitars that were built for George Harrison and I played one of them. It was a special thing because of its history, but was only an average instrument to play. I have also played a couple of Tony’s electric guitars, which were pretty cool and fun.

I have not played Ronnie’s Zemaitis Dobro, but I have played another one that was owned by Tony’s son. Very cool machine, but again for me it lacked the understanding of a resonator guitar. It was too big and incorrectly built, so the sound was not tight and controlled. Wood bodied resonator guitars should be built of plywood and that was ione of Tony’s biggest mistakes. These are not acoustic guitars, they are speaker cabinets and that is how they should be built. Tone woods like Tony used just don’t work properly.

I hope I have been helpful and I would really prefer to continue this discussion, which I am more than happy to do, on my forum. That was the reason I set it up in the first place.

Enjoy your day

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Shine On
Michael

[leeophonic]

I had one of non cutaway shobuds from this era, big guitars, great in there own way, Mine had the spruce top, most had the sunburst finish and the binding on quite a few is subject to crubling away, quaterman or beard cone would do the same job with the appropriate spider, Ronnie did remove the cone and coverplate on his at some time or other and put a wooden blank in it's place. The original cases for the sho buds were also worthy of note, halfway between a carlton and an SKB in battleship grey. Regards Lee

seem to remember laminate contruction

[pete1951]

Building a copy or a similar guitar as a homage to Zemaitis would be a great project,and you may end up with a nice looking guitar. However if you want it to sound as good as possible following the shape and size of ‘Traditional’ Dobros is the way forward. I have made several odd shaped,non standard guitars in my time and have had fun making them. The best sound always comes from something close to a standard shape and construction.
Pete

[Michael Messer]

Ronnie Lane was such a great artist. One of the most important and influential British writers and musical stylists of his time. First with Steve Marriott and then with Rod Stewart he created some of Britain's finest music of that time, and apart those that "know", Ronnie is so underrated.

In Austin, Texas, where he spent his final years, Ronnie was idolised by the musical fraternity, and rightfully so.







Shine On
Michael

[Pickers Ditch]

,,,and this one.