Ooft ! Buying guitars from EU

[snakehips]

Hi there !

Just thought I’d post this to warn any potential guitarist with GAS to be careful when buying from the EU nowadays.
Maybe the issue was the same from before Brexit - I’ve not had much dealing buying from abroad for anything other than vintage gear.

Just bought a brand new guitar from an ebay seller in Germany.
He does give the best prices that I have seen, having done plenty research on that point.
I didn’t research well the import taxes though !

Looks like my purchase has been hit with 20% VAT.
Suppose it’s because it’s a brand new item.
Wonder what it would have been if a 2nd hand guitar, but nearly new ??

The ebay seller’s price was not the price I paid. The ebay price was with the German tax. So, I paid the price excluding Germans tax, as I’m to pay UK tax on receiving the guitar (or in advance, if I don’t want shipping to be delayed).

Maybe you knew all this already - but if anyone here is as daft as me and didn’t know this, then perhaps it will help a guitarist here with bad GAS pangs to remember to keep another 20% on the purchase price ready for the tax man !!!

[mitchfit]

haven't bought anything from the EU, but from UK to US has hurdles to overcome also. my main problem was tran$ferring payments.

US postal money order is probably most widely accepted here if not done electronically. near gold standard.

very bad choice for UK purchase, took two weeks just to clear through the system.

mitchfit

[delb0y]

I bought a Furch from the Czech Republic a few years ago and it was a very painless exercise - but we were in the EU then. A friend bought a lovely Gibson jumbo from the US and had to pay taxes and shipping, but it still worked out cheaper than buying it here (albeit he had to buy it without playing it).

Derek

[ken1953clark]

VAT is 20% in Germany (and rest of EU too) and you shouldn’t pay their VAT, just ours, so all in all the price should be the same. The problem is the totally inefficient British import system where the goods can be stuck in limbo for weeks and they charge you 8 quid for the pleasure. Plus there may be import duties from some jurisdictions.
Caveat emptor

[Michael Messer]

Richard, If you had spoken to me before making the purchase, because of my MM Guitars company I could have given you chapter and verse on this subject. It is painful, expensive and frustrating.

We absolutely must not go into a political discussion on here, but I can tell you that in the past twelve months I have experienced no end of problems relating to costs and delays due to parcels being held in customs. My guitar business used to be around 35% sales to those countries, that has now dwindled to a trickle of the occasional sale.

Shine On
Michael

[obrienp]

I am very sorry to hear of your hassles Richard and Michael. This will not be of any help to Richard but I understand from another forum that one of the German box-shifters beginning with T has sorted this out now. They claim on their website that they take care of import duties and paperwork for UK buyers. I am road testing this at the moment, having bought some gear from them this week. I will report back when I receive the stuff.

I would generally prefer to buy secondhand, or from a UK based dealer if I possibly can but the German companies seem to carry lines that are not available in the UK and sometimes their pricing is better.

[Ian McWee]

Yep ~ M.M and myself have had several conversations regarding selling goods to EU countries now we've been cut loose...

It seems each individual country is applying it's own charges ~ the 'hidden' costs being 'admin' and 'courier' costs along with the VAT, and the delivery times are painful - I shipped a consignment of slides to Gothenburg and the customer paid for the 2-day express - leaving the U.K on December 7th & guaranteed to arrive on December 9th.....it arrived in Gothenburg on December 28th 🤔

Slide On!

The Flaschenmeister.

[Stevie]

Tax is I'm afraid. Win some and lose some. I have unlimited sympathy for honest folks like MM trying to navigate the white waters of unearned state funding.

I have an octogenarian acquaintance who used to work for the C&E. He is an otherwise wonderful person, but he does love to gloat about how he used to seize Fenders and Gibsons from "name" bands returning to Blighty after a US tour with their latest acquisitions. As if it would really hurt anyone at the end of the day? Much like politics on here and social media generally, I keep a stiff upper and say nowt when he's holding forth.m because I value his friendship more than offering my opinion.

Traditionally (as in before that which shall not be named) I found that "the luck of the draw" happily enough generally fell in my favour. Since armagheddon, the blood suckers over here have found a copper-bottomed jolly jape which is to mandate that the blue chip organisations collect the tithe for them. It's only natural that these companies would in turn exact a charge for undertaking C&E duties, but The Royal Mail's charge is ridiculous and can potentially add up to more than the item itself on rare occasions. Moreover, if they misidentify or make a mistake with the charge, or impose a charge where none is justified and you are left with no option but to challenge, you still have to pay up (or the item gets returned) and you end up like a ping-pong ball between The Inland Revenue and The Royal Mail, seemingly with no possibility of conversing with a breathing sentient being.

I received a parcel from Germany between Christmas and new year, local tax free, that slipped under the radar, no doubt overlooked in a fog of turkey and prosecco. Win some lose some, but "there's nowt so certain as death or taxes".

When I was fifty, I landed my Heritage Sweet16 from Uncle Sam free of Wear 'n' Tear", only being charged the approximately six percent customs fee. But that opens up another can of wrigglies- VAT should only be charged on the profit margin of second hand goods. There are countless organisations charging us VAT on the total, but only returning to the taxman the VAT on the difference between buy in and sell on. These companies really should be held to account because it is theft.

でつ e&oe ...

[Michael Messer]

Jan 15, 2022 10:35:32 GMT obrienp said:

I am very sorry to hear of your hassles Richard and Michael. This will not be of any help to Richard but I understand from another forum that one of the German box-shifters beginning with T has sorted this out now. They claim on their website that they take care of import duties and paperwork for UK buyers. I am road testing this at the moment, having bought some gear from them this week. I will report back when I receive the stuff.

I would generally prefer to buy secondhand, or from a UK based dealer if I possibly can but the German companies seem to carry lines that are not available in the UK and sometimes their pricing is better.

Pat, you are correct that Thomann, along with quite a few other EU based companies, are covering the import taxes for UK imports. It works fine. I recently bought £350.00 worth of goods from a German company and I paid no import taxes at all. This is a very sensible way for big EU based companies to continue doing business with the UK, but there is no conceivable way that I could cover such costs on my sales to EU countries. When it started in January 2021 I saw an immediate drop off of my sales to the EU, so as a gesture of goodwill I put a notice on my website offering all EU customers a £75.00 discount on MM Guitars. It certainly helped and got got a few sales coming through, but I found myself in a position of not being able to afford to do that, so I had to stop. Thomann will be in the same position as I was, but they are so big they can hopefully afford to cover our import taxes on their sales to the UK, which obviously represents a large amount of their business.

Shine On
Michael

[thebluesbear( al)]

Hi everyone
Living here in the EU , there are also issues shall i call them for getting stuff from the UK , as a result i cant use newtone strings now because of the need to order them directly ..its a P.I.T.A situation all around

al

[bonzo]

Sorry Michael but my tongue is bleeding from me biting it!
But having read the previous posts I think we can say brexit is guitar related. That said are there any forum members that can give one example of a benefit of brexit? I can't think of any!
Best wishes to you all, John

[leeophonic]

Buyer beware, I have shipped a lot of stuff from the US over the years and it has been a lottery over the years whether there was tax or duty to pay. The customs and post office are geared up for this now and it is rare if they miss anything now, that's life if you want it pay for it.

There are still bargains to be had in the UK and abroad even if you factor in the taxes, the guitar world is a strange one if you buy wisely you can recover most of your outlay if you decide to change your mind in years to come, so as hobbies/interests/lifestyles go it is relatively self funding although you will have to write off some money either to experience or having fun I guess.

Lee

[Michael Messer]

No Politics! ....only guitars, music and related stuff. We can discuss the costs involved in importing and exporting, but not the B word. PLEEEEAAAASSSSE!!!

Shine On
Michael.

[leeophonic]

Busker?

[obrienp]

Jan 15, 2022 12:30:36 GMT Michael Messer said:

Jan 15, 2022 10:35:32 GMT obrienp said:

I am very sorry to hear of your hassles Richard and Michael. This will not be of any help to Richard but I understand from another forum that one of the German box-shifters beginning with T has sorted this out now. They claim on their website that they take care of import duties and paperwork for UK buyers. I am road testing this at the moment, having bought some gear from them this week. I will report back when I receive the stuff.

I would generally prefer to buy secondhand, or from a UK based dealer if I possibly can but the German companies seem to carry lines that are not available in the UK and sometimes their pricing is better.

Pat, you are correct that Thomann, along with quite a few other EU based companies, are covering the import taxes for UK imports. It works fine. I recently bought £350.00 worth of goods from a German company and I paid no import taxes at all. This is a very sensible way for big EU based companies to continue doing business with the UK, but there is no conceivable way that I could cover such costs on my sales to EU countries. When it started in January 2021 I saw an immediate drop off of my sales to the EU, so as a gesture of goodwill I put a notice on my website offering all EU customers a £75.00 discount on MM Guitars. It certainly helped and got got a few sales coming through, but I found myself in a position of not being able to afford to do that, so I had to stop. Thomann will be in the same position as I was, but they are so big they can hopefully afford to cover our import taxes on their sales to the UK, which obviously represents a large amount of their business.

Shine On
Michael

Hi Michael, Trying not to go political here but I can see how it is a huge problem for you and other smaller businesses. The likes of Thomann are so huge that they can afford to absorb the extra cost but those with narrower margins and less volume are seriously disadvantaged. I can only sympathise and observe that it is always the little guy who gets shafted.

Let’s not even start on the mountain of red tape and additional cost that musicians, and other performers, have to cope with if they want to gig in the EU these days!!