Replacement Biscuit

[Deleted]

I have an MM Blues resonator and have been struggling with it as the action is lower than I'm used to. I've changed the strings from Newtone 13-56 to Elixir 80:20 13-56, and the slightly higher tension has helped.



I'm happier now, but am still considering having a new biscuit and saddle installed by a tech, so the action can be similar to my Lightning. I have a replacement biscuit and saddle for an MM Blues 28. Is this be suitable for the MM Blues? The slot is wider on the replacement, but the biscuit seems to be the same size.


Thanks

[pete1951]

One thing that does effect action is neck relief, the slight curve that necks need to give strings room it vibrate properly. More relief ( done by truss rod adjustment)) will raise the action a little.
Pete

[Michael Messer]

Nov 28, 2021 0:49:42 GMT @georgek said:

I have an MM Blues resonator and have been struggling with it as the action is lower than I'm used to. I've changed the strings from Newtone 13-56 to Elixir 80:20 13-56, and the slightly higher tension has helped.



I'm happier now, but am still considering having a new biscuit and saddle installed by a tech, so the action can be similar to my Lightning. I have a replacement biscuit and saddle for an MM Blues 28. Is this be suitable for the MM Blues? The slot is wider on the replacement, but the biscuit seems to be the same size.


Thanks

Hi GeorgeK

The biscuit/saddle you have should be fine. If you are unsure, PM me your address and I will send you a biscuit/bridge.

I can't see who you are from your forum name, so when you PM me, please remind me when you got the guitar.

Pete is right about loosening the truss rod to put a little relief into the neck, it may well be enough.

Shine On
Michael

[lonelyjelly]

Sub point.question:-
This is interesting as I thought and experienced that, unlike on a flat top acoustic, with a reso if you put heavier strings on it actually lowers the action slightly, due I assume to the extra pressure on the cone....or am I talking and thinking utter nonsense? 🤔😳😬

[Michael Messer]

Nov 28, 2021 12:40:21 GMT lonelyjelly said:

Sub point.question:-
This is interesting as I thought and experienced that, unlike on a flat top acoustic, with a reso if you put heavier strings on it actually lowers the action slightly, due I assume to the extra pressure on the cone....or am I talking and thinking utter nonsense? 🤔😳😬

Sub point answer.... yes, you are talking and thinking utter nonsense, in fact....more to the point...total bollox 🤔😳😬

Shine On
Michael

[lonelyjelly]

Ha ha fair enough.
Must be something else that altered the action then, although apart from changing from 54-12's to 56-13's nothing else was altered.
It is quite a logical observation to be fair.

[Deleted]

I've adjusted the truss rod slightly, and the guitar sounds great. Happy at last. The guitar is  MM190981 and I've used one of my middle names, George, and my father's mother's Irish maiden name, Kelly,as my forum name.

[bonzo]

You never did finish that diplomatic course you were on did you Michael! 😊👍🎸

[Deleted]

Michael is a graduate of the Deuce Diplomacy Course - sad to see the inimitable Deuce has gone - though occasionally returning as tt.



Funnily enough, when Michael (and Robin Clark, on a different forum) told me to use a 15 as first string, like LJ I thought it would surely lower the action, not raise it. I then thought, now, who are the experts - Michael and Robin, or me - so I did change to a 15 (before changing to Elixirs).

[Michael Messer]

It is a fair question, but cones are pretty strong and there is a slight/fraction of difference with and without strings tuned to pitch on a new resonator, but the affect of 12/56 / 15/56 / 16/59 etc.. is not going to affect the string height in any noticeable way, unless the cone is damaged and is springing up and down around one of the rims on the outer edge.

I was of course teasing Lewis, as he well knows, with my choice of words and I do not subscribe the method of diplomacy mentioned above!

GeorgeK (Philip), I am pleased that you are now happy with your guitar. Adjusting the truss rod is the first and best thing to try before making any other adjustments. BTW... if you do want a new biscuit/bridge at any time, just holler and I'll post one out to you.

Shine On
Michael

[lonelyjelly]

For the record, much like my cone (I jest, I hope!) I am crushed by Michael's comments!?! 🕺🏻🎸🕺🏻🎸🕺🏻

My string gauge change and action variance happened when I first got the guitar back from Dave following its surgery so maybe it was just a coincidence whilst everything was bedding in and settling 🙂

Good news that your guitar is feeling more to your liking following a truss rod tweak, GeorgeK. 👍🎸🍷

Best,
Lew

[pete1951]

Nov 28, 2021 12:40:21 GMT lonelyjelly said:

Sub point.question:-
This is interesting as I thought and experienced that, unlike on a flat top acoustic, with a reso if you put heavier strings on it actually lowers the action slightly, due I assume to the extra pressure on the cone....or am I talking and thinking utter nonsense? 🤔😳😬

Though I don’t like to take a different view to Michael I think there is something in lonelyjellys idea. Cones do go down very slightly with heavy strings, so action could go down. However, necks will bend up as strings get heavier, which raises action. I would guess the neck goes up more than the cone goes down, so overall, the effect is higher action with heavy strings
Pete

“And Yet It Moves”
It would be interesting to do some measurements ,which someone will do next week ( I will if nobody beats me to it)

[Michael Messer]

I am not going to argue on this and I respect Pete's opinion too, but I am going to ask a friend what he thinks about whether a cone varies in height with different string gauges.

Shine On
Michael

[Michael Messer]

Nov 28, 2021 16:18:55 GMT lonelyjelly said:

For the record, much like my cone (I jest, I hope!) I am crushed by Michael's comments!?! 🕺🏻🎸🕺🏻🎸🕺🏻

My string gauge change and action variance happened when I first got the guitar back from Dave following its surgery so maybe it was just a coincidence whilst everything was bedding in and settling 🙂

Good news that your guitar is feeling more to your liking following a truss rod tweak, GeorgeK. 👍🎸🍷

Best,
Lew

Lew, I think it was more connected to everything bedding in and possibly the neck pulling with different strings, but I doubt it. More likely everything bedding in.

Shine On
Michael

[pete1951]

I couldn’t wait!
I don’t have very advanced measuring equipment here I am measuring cone deflection!


I have 013s on the guitar ( in open G)

First I retuned to open F, about the same tension as an 011 set, cone deflection 6.4mm
Then tuned up to open A, about the same as an 014 set cone deflection 6.7.

So the cone went down .3mm

So what happened to the action?- it went up 0.2 MM

Yes, heavier string ( on this guitar) will raise the action even though the bridge has gone down .
Pete

Someone with better measuring equipment could do a more accurate job...