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Post by rosantu on Nov 4, 2021 6:44:56 GMT
Hi all, just a question. My luthier asked me if I want a bone saddle on a tricone. Do you think that could improve the sound or is it better the keep the one made in wood?
Thanks for your replies, we need some help here in Spain 😁.
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 4, 2021 7:08:41 GMT
There have been several posts about saddle materials in the past, solid maple or box wood are usually recommended.
Pete
From an engineering point of view a very hard saddle would be best. There will be less string damage and the saddle will last longer. However, in the resonator world ( as with violins cellos and basses) solid maple is used. Even an ebony or rosewood cap on the maple saddle is said too make the sound ‘harsh’.
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Post by bluesdude on Nov 4, 2021 8:13:34 GMT
In my experience a repair person who likes to fit bone saddles usually doesn't know how to cut saddle slots on a resonator properly! So no ask for maple!
Kenny,,,,,,
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 4, 2021 10:18:51 GMT
Bone saddles on resonator guitars sound terrible. You do not want bone, ebony, or anything else that is hard. The best material for a Tricone, or any other resonator, is English box wood. It is soft and gives a sweet warm sound, rather than a thin brittle sound. If you can't get box, maple is the second best, but is not as sweet. Box is what they used on Nationals in the old days.
If your luthier is offering you a bone saddle, you should consider taking it to a luthier that knows about Tricones, because this one doesn't.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 5, 2021 8:19:15 GMT
....further to my previous post, I forgot to mention that original National guitars in the 1920s, 30s and 40s, all had English box saddles.
Shine On
Michael
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Post by pete1951 on Nov 5, 2021 10:51:09 GMT
Box grown in the UK is probably a little harder than wood grown around the Mediterranean. The Box Moth is working it’s way up the UK at the moment land lots of people are removing large old box trees. There should be large amounts of green box wood around. Any young Resonator people should lookout for large bits and keep it dry for a few years .
Pete
Sadly my box hedge is only 20years old so the largest bits are only 20-30mm across, talk to local tree surgeons an I would think you could get some good bits.
Seal the ends with wax and let it air dry , they say 1 year for every 25mm thick, but I would give it longer if it’s ‘in the round’ with the bark on.
Sorry,bit off thread but box saddles will be needed in 10-20years time.
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sceyral
Serious MM Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by sceyral on Nov 6, 2021 7:32:10 GMT
to MMesser:
"further to my previous post, I forgot to mention that original National guitars in the 1920s, 30s and 40s, all had English box saddles."
Same wood used in french oldest pocket knives (the "Nontron", 500 yrs old) : very hard, rot-proof, honey color wood. These handmade knives are still in production today and, in Dordogne, (almost) everyone's got one of them. The origin (arabic, german, nordic, celtic?) of pyrograved patterns, on the shaft, are completely unknown: no ad here, just History!
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Post by vastopol on Nov 15, 2021 11:56:45 GMT
I wonder if meditteranean Box is softer than English box, or other wise ? as the box had to grown with less water and a dry weather, growing less fast than in the super wet fog legendary renowned.
I know a place where box grow on rocks, very small and "bonzaïsh" but a few miles away in a bottom, the box made a forest with a lot of spanish moss hanging...but I don't want to dismantle my guitar anytime just to give a try.
Hardness seems to not give the best sound, the same differences can appear with maple, some are hard, and some relatively softer...
Michael, if I remember correctly from what I've read; do you remember if "the Harry" had a genuine factory made bone saddle ?
(could be the one and only, but very interesting).
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Post by Michael Messer on Nov 15, 2021 12:09:46 GMT
I wonder if meditteranean Box is softer than English box, or other wise ? as the box had to grown with less water and a dry weather, growing less fast than in the super wet fog legendary renowned. I know a place where box grow on rocks, very small and "bonzaïsh" but a few miles away in a bottom, the box made a forest with a lot of spanish moss hanging...but I don't want to dismantle my guitar anytime just to give a try. Hardness seems to not give the best sound, the same differences can appear with maple, some are hard, and some relatively softer... Michael, if I remember correctly from what I've read; do you remember if "the Harry" had a genuine factory made bone saddle ? (could be the one and only, but very interesting). When I got the Harry Watson Tricone it did indeed have a bone saddle, which was changed soon after I got it because it was hindering the guitar's performance. Whether it was factory fitted, or whether Harry fitted it himself is not known (I suspect the latter), but one thing is for sure, the guitar was transformed after it was changed. Now I am intrigued about who you are because very few people would know that fact? If you wish to stay anonymous on the forum, then please send me a private message. Thanks. Shine On Michael |
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Post by vastopol on Nov 15, 2021 14:42:34 GMT
Well, I like the idea of maintaining a certain bit of relative discretion, altrough I'm not absolutely masked here...few members know who I am.
As observed on others forums, it's better to stay outside of any kind of autopromotion, and because I am musician, since I earn my life by playing music the limit could be thin between a simple chat or selfconvinced persuasion.
Its courageous to give your real name to this forum, and a serious guaranty of respect for eachother.
I will send you a PM ( without mask !)
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