Rebuilding an ancient Wayne 'Dobro'...

[savvas]

Hi Folks,

I'd like to first thank you for admitting me to your august company - I appreciate it!

I have an ancient Wayne resonator guitar which I believe was built in Melbourne, Australia in the 1940s. It is (I think) a copy of the small-bodied Dobros typical of the '30s/'40s with small 'f' holes, a '00' sized body & a 12-fret neck.

Wayne seem to have made several levels of guitar and I think this one must have been their 'cheapest':
- it is rather crudely slapped together:
- very little top and back transverse bracing (and what's there is not particularly straight or neatly done)
- no internal 'neck stick' or neck adjustment/bracing mechanism or mechanical neck attachment
- I suspect that the neck is either dove-tailed into the block simply glued to the body with a butt joint.

The metal work appears to be original Dobro (or similar) parts and the cone looks to be spun (edges are a little bent). The Guitar top appears to be solid wood and the ledge the cone sits on simply consists of 4 curved bits of thin wood crudely glued underneath the perimeter of the big hole in the top. The big hole is not even particularly circular!

There is no longitudinal bracing of the guitar and its top at all! The guitar is quite lightweight and is completely open inside. Action is very high ('unplayable in the Spanish' sense) and a straight edge suggests some folding-up of the top under string tension - evidenced by downward deflection of the top at the neck-end of the big hole in the order of 3-4mm.

Tuners are mismatched 1940s style, no binding, heat-affected varnish finish, no evidence of neck reinforcement, rather fat, V-shaped neck & flat fingerboard etc etc.

Sounds like a disaster & lost cause doesn't it - but actually it sounds pretty good! I'd like to rescue it, although I don't want to spend much money! But it certainly has the makings of a nice little knock-around finger-style guitar with maybe some historical value as well. 

I'm comfortable with tasks like refinishing, fretwork, tuner replacement and so-on, but have no experience with major structural repairs or indeed with resonator construction. Aside from neck issues, I'm thinking that what this guitar needs more than anything else is something to both render the top straight and stable AND provide a level platform for the cone to sit on.

Elsewhere I've seen a picture (see below) of a one-piece ply plate consisting of a ring/ledge support underneath the big hole with north & south extensions that butt up against the faces of the heel & end blocks. It seems to me that if I took the back off this instrument I could then replace the current scrappy cone support ledges with something like this plate, pressed down & glued to the top and end blocks. This would both flatten and straighten things out (and make the tops much stiffer) while also providing a nice flat surface for the cone to sit on (because the big hole is out-of-round I'd probably have to add some small index blocks or pins to ensure that the cone was held securely in the correct position).

Does this sound like a reasonable first step in my 'rescue' strategy? If so, what material would people suggest I make the top plate/support from and what would be a good thickness to aim for? I don't want the guitar to get much heavier...

Advice and comments much appreciated!

Thanks, Sam (Adelaide, Australia).

[pete1951]

Some photos of the guitar would help a lot.
Pete

[savvas]

Thanks for the reminder Pete. It's getting a bit dark for pics here atm but here are a couple I took a few days ago when I had the cover plate & cone/spider out.

As you will see, construction is rudimentary & bracing is minimal. The interior view is looking towards the neck block. The small 'post' is located just under the end of the fretboard and is - I presume - aimed at preventing deflection of the top (didn't work particularly well!) I'll try to take some more tomorrow afternoon.


You'll see that there are no neck fastenings visible and no adjustment mechanism. Nor does there appear to be any sort of screw fastening through the fretboard and top so I'm presuming that the neck/block joint is either dovetailed, mortised or simply butted and glued.

My first priority I think will be to try to stabilise and straighten out the body & top and provide a flat surface to mount the cone onto. Any advice appreciated!

regards,

Sam.

[leeophonic]

www.facebook.com/groups/1507833022578349/?multi_permalinks=5007743552587261%2C5005152796179670¬if_id=1635582265796399¬if_t=group_activity&ref=notif

Coincidently there is another Wayne thread going on Facebook (or whatever it's called now) Mick Hogan started the thread there and other Wayne owners are chipping in.

Regards

Lee

[savvas]

Wow - my guitar is exactly like the one on the left in that Facebook post. Great to see another one - thanks!

[pete1951]

Many cheap reso guitars have been built like this, basically a standard acoustic with a huge hole. It is almost inevitable that the guitar tries to fold in half. Most good wood resos have a very stiff top ( usually ply though solid wood is not unheard of!) and most will also have some support for the cone from the back ( often a well with holes in ( most Dobros) or posts ( most biscuit cone guitars. With this type of guitar I think it might be best to have a sort of neck stick. Most Reso neck sticks are there to hold the neck in place and do not go to the end block, I think ( unless you put in a large piece of ply, like the photo in your first post) a stick that goes from neck block to end block might be a good idea. This would go through the well( if you fit one) just under the cone.

I did a reinforcement job on a cheap Reso a few years back. There could be some stuff you might find useful , will post it if it still is on YouTube somewhere
Pete


Here it is, I don’t mention a neckstick, but I bet I put one in

[savvas]

Thanks Pete, that's a great video. I have a couple of queries which I'll get to below...

But first you said:
"It is almost inevitable that the guitar tries to fold in half. Most good wood resos have a very stiff top ( usually ply though solid wood is not unheard of!) and most will also have some support for the cone from the back ( often a well with holes in ( most Dobros) or posts ( most biscuit cone guitars)."

...and I think that's the problem with this Wayne. The top appears to be thin, light-weight wood (maybe 4-5mm & I'm not even sure if it's ply) with little inherent stiffness & next to no bracing. Apart from the small post underneath the end of the fret board there's no support for either the cone ledge or to counter the longitudinal 'folding' forces on the top.

You suggested:
"With this type of guitar I think it might be best to have a sort of neck stick. Most Reso neck sticks are there to hold the neck in place and do not go to the end block, I think ( unless you put in a large piece of ply, like the photo in your first post) a stick that goes from neck block to end block might be a good idea. This would go through the well( if you fit one) just under the cone."

So would the neck stick you suggest be a simple brace between the 2 end blocks? That would seem to provide some end-to-end rigidity. But while not wanting to discount your advice, I see a persisting problem in that the 'neck stick' brace (unless cut into a curved shape) would have to be located fairly low down on the face of the blocks to miss the cone, and hence would exert minimal 'leverage' towards the top to counter the 'folding' forces.

Such a brace also wouldn't provide any direct support or stiffness to the top nor could it serve to flatten out the top which is already distorted downwards between the end of the fret board and the lower edge of the big hole. This distortion has I'm sure contributed to the very high action and also wouldn't be doing much to ensure a flat surface for the cone to sit on.

This is why I've wondered about the large ply combined top-brace/cone support structure illustrated in the first pic. It seems to function to:
- provide end-to-end stability between the top of the end blocks
- provide stiffness reinforcement to the top and - in the case of my Wayne & if glued tightly to the top - could also help flatten out the existing distortion
- provide a flat & rigid surface for the cone to sit on.

What do you think - is my reasoning on the right track?

If so, I also need to ask about what material you'd suggest for such a brace and how to go about designing the cone support ledge?

The current cone support ledge is located about 5mm below the face of the guitar and just consists of 5 thing curved scraps glued to the under surface of the top. So the cone sits about 5mm below the face of the instrument. The top of the bridge is about 9mm below the under surface of the palm rest which seems v/low - I'm presuming it may have been cut down to try to provide better action!

I note in your video and in several others that I've looked at mention is made of some sort of 'stepped' approach to designing a routed cone support ledge that ends up (I think) much lower than the one on my guitar. I'm not sure why this might be done - on my guitar it would only make the action much worse & reduce the break angle for the strings across the bridge. Have I misunderstood something here?

Thanks,

Sam.

[pete1951]

Hi Sam , I can see from your comments you understand what’s going on and will probably do a good job whatever advice you get..

Yes the stick ( if you go down that route) might have to be curved, though this is not ideal, it is a compromise

If you are replacing the old cone support ply/ timber strips , these could be a stiff ply, (6mm birch?) this would also stiffen the top.

As I said most Dobro guitars have a well, this links the top and the back, which again helps to stiffen the body and support the cone ( there are a few ‘well-less’ Dobro style guitars , not sure if the link top and back with props)

The relationship between the neck,bridge and tailpiece might be your biggest problem.
The original depth of the cone if most likely the correct one in relation to the tailpiece as it is. Adjusting the action by lowering the cone or saddle may kill the tone.
The guitar ( if the work on the top doesn’t straighten it out enough) may need to have the neck reset, or you may just enjoy it playing lap style and not bother.

Pete

More photos would be good

[pete1951]

Just remembered I had this drawing of a Dobro ( this has a bolt on neck, rather than the more traditional neckstick, see sketch) but it shows the well.
Pete



Sorry upside down, not sure how to turn it!